---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:11:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [OT] The Trekkie Creationist vs. The Warsie Evolutionist Message-ID: <9l0f3f$6q0b2$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- Creationism is a belief system equal to at least 5,000 milliWarsies, with one Warsie being used as a unit of stupidity. How in the name of hell did you end up as a Trekker? What hell hath Voyager wrought upon the franchise, that it's all come down to this? Julius Harper wrote in message ... > >Neo-Darwinism is the world view that explains macro-evolution by the events >of Random Mutation and Natural Selection. Mutations are errors that occur >when a cell is transcribing a copy of it's genetic code during mitosis. You >can think of a mutation akin to a typographical error. According to the >theses of Neo-Darwinism, these mutations are the ONLY source of novelty in >the genetic code. Actually, as memory serves (for I've not taken part in one of these in a while), mutations occur strictly within the cell. Your "mitosis errors" are probably transposition (a very different process), one of several processes that allow for genetic change. > >In code and language (and the genetic language is no exception to this) an >error is much more likely to be detremental to the end document. Be that end >document a thesis paper or the genetic code that controlls heredity within >organisms. The great majority of mutations are harmful or lethal to the >reproducing organism. Accumulation of these mutations would result in >degeneration, or Devolution rather than evolution. That comment belies a fundamental ignorance of how DNA and genes work. >> > 2. A logical and scientific analysis of factual information points to >the >> > impossible-to-dismiss fact that an INTELLIGENT BEING (read: God) created >the >> > universe as we know it. >> Prove it. There is no evidence to support your assumption that there was >> a time when the Universe did not exist. In fact, according to >> Conservation of Energy, this is impossible. Strike 2. > >In fact there is much evidence that there was a time when the universe did >not exist. Indeed, the universe had a beginning, (known to scientific >researchers as the Big Bang. I prefer to call it the Voice of God, but that >is only my opinion.) Time did not exist "prior" to the Big Bang, therefore your statements are illogical. >And even moreso, as you said according to the Conservation of Energy, matter >can not just "pop" into existence. But we do know the universe had a >beginning by by the two previous implications. Therefore, SOMETHING (read: >someone) had to set these events into motion. Illogical. The Big Bang requires no outside influence to have occurred. Indeed, from both the physical and temporal facts relating to the Big Bang, one could refer to the Universe as a paradox. >Something outside or above of >the laws of physics (read: God) had to set these events into motion. "Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated." > >> > 3. Modern Science, contrary to popular understanding does more to >CONFIRM >> > the existence of God (read: The Creator) than it does to dismiss it. >> >> Wrong. Science has absolutely jackshit to do with the existence of god. > >Incorrect statement. False. >Science has to do with the pursuit of truth. True. However, religious claims do not fall under that umbrella, unless and until they invade the turf of science. >> > With those three points to prove stated, I will attempt to give some >> > background on myself. My name is Julius Harper, and I am a fan of both >Star >> > Trek and Star Wars. I am also a professing Christian. I do not consider >> > myself a part of any particular denomination of Christianity, and moreso >I >> > attend a non-denominational Christian Fellowship in my home city. >Politics, >> > Science, Prophesy, Science Fiction, and Christian Religion fascinate me. >I >> > seek, through education and learning, to gain a better understanding of >the >> > world around me. I am young and brash, and a bit too eager to throw >myself >> > headlong into an argument (read: this post), but I believe that this >> > intellectual bout may in the end prove to help sharpen my skills at >debate, >> > and perhaps do some to better educate those who would put their faith in >> > Darwin. >> >> Evolution isn't a matter of faith. It is observed FACT that organisms >> will develop mutations when confronted with an environmental change, or >> they will die. > >Micro-evolution. Change within organisms is limited. A population of moths >can shift from black to white, but the moths will still remain moths. Please >show me a situation where a moth gave rise to another creature. "Speciation has been observed. In the plant genus Tragopogon, two new species have evolved within the past 50-60 years. They are T. mirus and T. miscellus. The new species were formed when one diploid species fertilized a different diploid species and produced a tetraploid offspring. This tetraploid offspring could not fertilize or be fertilized by either of its two parent species types. It is reproductively isolated, the definition of a species." From http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html > > This is a fact and not subject to debate, especially by >> religious nutcases who obviously have no clue what science or debating >> is. Do you believe in Noah's Ark, too? > >Actually I do. But I still dont see your grounding for calling me a nutcase. He called you a nutcase because you believe without evidence that the entire planet was once covered by water. It is therefore likely (taken in concert with your request for data proving a 65-million year age for Earth) that you believe Earth to be less than 10,000 years old, despite all the data to the contrary from every branch of science. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:44:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [OT] The Trekkie Creationist vs. The Warsie Evolutionist Message-ID: <3B7447A7.A1CD0FC3@daltonator.net> -------- Guardian 2000 wrote: > > Creationism is a belief system equal to at least 5,000 milliWarsies, with > one Warsie being used as a unit of stupidity. How in the name of hell did > you end up as a Trekker? > > What hell hath Voyager wrought upon the franchise, that it's all come down > to this? It's milliJacques, Scott. Stop fucking with our SI units. -- Rob "Roby" Dalton http://daltonator.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Durandal Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:18:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [OT] The Trekkie Creationist vs. The Warsie Evolutionist Message-ID: <3B745DA3.5772BCC9@mac.com> -------- Dalton wrote: > > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > Creationism is a belief system equal to at least 5,000 milliWarsies, with > > one Warsie being used as a unit of stupidity. How in the name of hell did > > you end up as a Trekker? > > > > What hell hath Voyager wrought upon the franchise, that it's all come down > > to this? > > It's milliJacques, Scott. Stop fucking with our SI units. He can't accept the fact that the two dumbest debaters ever to smear this NG with their presence were both pro-ST. -- Damien Sorresso "The older you get, the more interested you are in Britney Spears." -John McCain ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:28:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [OT] The Trekkie Creationist vs. The Warsie Evolutionist Message-ID: <3B74A66A.2215902A@daltonator.net> -------- Durandal wrote: > > Dalton wrote: > > > > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > > > Creationism is a belief system equal to at least 5,000 milliWarsies, with > > > one Warsie being used as a unit of stupidity. How in the name of hell did > > > you end up as a Trekker? > > > > > > What hell hath Voyager wrought upon the franchise, that it's all come down > > > to this? > > > > It's milliJacques, Scott. Stop fucking with our SI units. > > He can't accept the fact that the two dumbest debaters ever to smear > this NG with their presence were both pro-ST. Three. -- Rob "Roby" Dalton | http://daltonator.net "God's master plan for her creation goes something like this: 'Screw you. I'm going on vacation.'" - "Plain & Simple" Cronan Thompson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Durandal Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:06:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [OT] The Trekkie Creationist vs. The Warsie Evolutionist Message-ID: <3B74AF37.63536F72@mac.com> -------- Dalton wrote: > > Durandal wrote: > > > > Dalton wrote: > > > > > > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > > > > > Creationism is a belief system equal to at least 5,000 milliWarsies, with > > > > one Warsie being used as a unit of stupidity. How in the name of hell did > > > > you end up as a Trekker? > > > > > > > > What hell hath Voyager wrought upon the franchise, that it's all come down > > > > to this? > > > > > > It's milliJacques, Scott. Stop fucking with our SI units. > > > > He can't accept the fact that the two dumbest debaters ever to smear > > this NG with their presence were both pro-ST. > > Three. Of course. How could I leave dear ole Scott out? -- Damien Sorresso "The older you get, the more interested you are in Britney Spears." -John McCain ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:08:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [OT] The Trekkie Creationist vs. The Warsie Evolutionist Message-ID: <3B74AFD6.4CA0D1D9@daltonator.net> -------- Durandal wrote: > > Dalton wrote: > > > > Durandal wrote: > > > > > > Dalton wrote: > > > > > > > > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Creationism is a belief system equal to at least 5,000 milliWarsies, with > > > > > one Warsie being used as a unit of stupidity. How in the name of hell did > > > > > you end up as a Trekker? > > > > > > > > > > What hell hath Voyager wrought upon the franchise, that it's all come down > > > > > to this? > > > > > > > > It's milliJacques, Scott. Stop fucking with our SI units. > > > > > > He can't accept the fact that the two dumbest debaters ever to smear > > > this NG with their presence were both pro-ST. > > > > Three. > > Of course. How could I leave dear ole Scott out? Make that four ;) -- Rob "Roby" Dalton | http://daltonator.net "God's master plan for her creation goes something like this: 'Screw you. I'm going on vacation.'" - "Plain & Simple" Cronan Thompson