---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow {PHX}" Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:22:41 +0200 Subject: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- I'd like to know how you rate the ships in ST and SW, we're assuming a GCS is 1000 and work from that one. Here is how I see it: GCS: 1000 War-GCS: 1500 SCS: 2200 ECS: 7-800? ICS: 600 DCS: 700 ISD: 2700 ISD2: 5000 VSD: 1000 VSD2: 1300 SSD: 20000 Eclipse: 60000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris O'Farrell" Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 00:35:06 +1100 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3c0789ec$0$12224$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> -------- His Divine Shadow {PHX} wrote in message news:XVKN7.153$hr.16885@read2.inet.fi... > I'd like to know how you rate the ships in ST and SW, we're assuming a GCS > is 1000 and work from that one. > > Here is how I see it: > > GCS: 1000 > War-GCS: 1500 > SCS: 2200 > ECS: 7-800? > ICS: 600 > DCS: 700 > > > ISD: 2700 > ISD2: 5000 > VSD: 1000 > VSD2: 1300 > SSD: 20000 > Eclipse: 60000 > Are you including the superlaser in the eclipse? That alone will increase its firepower dozens of orders of magnitude ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow {PHX}" Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 22:23:56 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <0SxO7.250$lu3.19082@read2.inet.fi> -------- "Chris O'Farrell" wrote in message news:3c0789ec$0$12224$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > > His Divine Shadow {PHX} wrote in message > news:XVKN7.153$hr.16885@read2.inet.fi... > > I'd like to know how you rate the ships in ST and SW, we're assuming a GCS > > is 1000 and work from that one. > > > > Here is how I see it: > > > > GCS: 1000 > > War-GCS: 1500 > > SCS: 2200 > > ECS: 7-800? > > ICS: 600 > > DCS: 700 > > > > > > ISD: 2700 > > ISD2: 5000 > > VSD: 1000 > > VSD2: 1300 > > SSD: 20000 > > Eclipse: 60000 > > > Are you including the superlaser in the eclipse? That alone will increase > its firepower dozens of orders of magnitude > No I was not, though I should have said so. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graeme Dice Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:57:24 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C078FE7.BC27808@sk.sympatico.ca> -------- His Divine Shadow {PHX} wrote: > > I'd like to know how you rate the ships in ST and SW, we're assuming a GCS > is 1000 and work from that one. I'll ignore the fact that this is a spacebattles thread and answer. > Here is how I see it: Here's how it actually is. > GCS: 1 > War-GCS: 1.5 This ship classification is a trekkie creation. There is no actual evidence that the GCS's in DS9 are any different than any others. > SCS: 2.2 > ECS: 0.7-0.8? > ICS: 0.6 > DCS: 0.7 > > ISD: 400 > ISD2: 400 > VSD: 100 > VSD2: 130 > SSD: 2000 > Eclipse: 6000 That's using fairly reasonable numbers for power comparisons. THe ISD could range as high as 100,000 however. Graeme Dice -- A normal random number generator: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 4.33e+67, 1, 1, 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris O'Farrell" Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:08:34 +1100 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3c0791c5$0$12226$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> -------- > This ship classification is a trekkie creation. There is no actual > evidence that the GCS's in DS9 are any different than any others. > Appart from the visual differences like a double sized main hanger, a different deflector dish, phaser 'humps' added on the nacelles, some with extra armour on the neck section..... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graeme Dice Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 15:29:40 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0A4884.F01EAF03@sk.sympatico.ca> -------- Chris O'Farrell wrote: > > > This ship classification is a trekkie creation. There is no actual > > evidence that the GCS's in DS9 are any different than any others. > > > > Appart from the visual differences like a double sized main hanger, a > different deflector dish, phaser 'humps' added on the nacelles, some with > extra armour on the neck section..... Let's see a side by side comparison then. Graeme Dice -- A random number table, once created, requires no errata. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phong Nguyen Date: 2 Dec 2001 18:36:57 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- Graeme Dice wrote in news:3C0A4884.F01EAF03@sk.sympatico.ca: > Chris O'Farrell wrote: >> >> > This ship classification is a trekkie creation. There is no actual >> > evidence that the GCS's in DS9 are any different than any others. >> > >> >> Appart from the visual differences like a double sized main hanger, a >> different deflector dish, phaser 'humps' added on the nacelles, some >> with extra armour on the neck section..... > > Let's see a side by side comparison then. > Yes. I would like to see a genuine difference. -- Phong Nguyen Email: phongn-at-antispam-northwestern-edu AIM: JediPhong "War is the continuation of politics by other means." Karl von Clausewitz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:38:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9uel27$82sts$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "Graeme Dice" wrote in message news:3C0A4884.F01EAF03@sk.sympatico.ca... > Chris O'Farrell wrote: > > > > > This ship classification is a trekkie creation. There is no actual > > > evidence that the GCS's in DS9 are any different than any others. > > > > > > > Appart from the visual differences like a double sized main hanger, a > > different deflector dish, phaser 'humps' added on the nacelles, some with > > extra armour on the neck section..... > > Let's see a side by side comparison then. > Take one shiny happy TNG GCS (actually Generations, but it's the original ILM model built for TNG): http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/mechanics/ed1a.jpg Take one DS9-era GCS . . . the USS Venture, part of the Federation task force which would've attempted to rescue the station from the Klingon Fleet in "Way of the Warrior"(DS9). http://neutralzone.future.easyspace.com/Federation/StarFleet/GalaxyVenture03 .jpg (Note the tops of the warp nacelles) And, from "Favor the Bold", the shots of the "Galaxy Cobra" as some have referred to it, due to the shape of the dark-colored area on the back of the connecting dorsal. This variant's warp engines appear not to be modified as are the Venture's, though I can't tell if they've been modified a la later DS9 ships, such as this one: http://starships.virtualave.net/galaxy/galaxy_fleet8.jpg (Note the peculiar coloration scheme of the . . . the . . . the glowing blue thingies.) Now, I don't put too much into the different deflector dish . . . after all, there were two models used in TNG, the original 10-foot ILM model, featuring slender lines and virtually no surface detail, and the much beefier and more detailed 4-foot model built by Greg Jein . . . the shots of the two models were used interchangably in episodes, despite the differences in (specifically) the deflector region. Here's a shot of the 4-foot "Bulldog" Enterprise-D http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/mechanics/ed2b.jpg ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kynes Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 19:43:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- On Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:38:19 -0600, "Guardian 2000" wrote: >Take one DS9-era GCS . . . the USS Venture, part of the Federation task >force which would've attempted to rescue the station from the Klingon Fleet >in "Way of the Warrior"(DS9). > >http://neutralzone.future.easyspace.com/Federation/StarFleet/GalaxyVenture03 >.jpg > >(Note the tops of the warp nacelles) That's not even a GCS. -- -LK! [ kynes@choam.org ] [ ICQ: 795238 ] [ AIM: Kynes23 ] There has been a control message sent out for a "alt.startrek.vs.starwars". Unfortunately, it was extremely badly done as it contains no newsgroup description or rationale at all (not even a tag)... What the above paragraph means is that, not only is the alt group dead in the water because of these misguided actions, but any attempt to create a group with the same name is probably dead in the water too. - From alt.config, 7/12/97 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phong Nguyen Date: 3 Dec 2001 02:26:54 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- Kynes wrote in news:sNgKPOguYfFOL6y7uQ5T8qegTyqf@4ax.com: > On Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:38:19 -0600, "Guardian 2000" > wrote: > >>Take one DS9-era GCS . . . the USS Venture, part of the Federation >>task force which would've attempted to rescue the station from the >>Klingon Fleet in "Way of the Warrior"(DS9). >> >>http://neutralzone.future.easyspace.com/Federation/StarFleet/GalaxyVent >>ure03 .jpg >> >>(Note the tops of the warp nacelles) > > That's not even a GCS. > Looks like one too me, but the lighting and angle are lousy. -- Phong Nguyen Email: phongn-at-antispam-northwestern-edu AIM: JediPhong "War is the continuation of politics by other means." Karl von Clausewitz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kynes Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 20:53:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- On 3 Dec 2001 02:26:54 GMT, Phong Nguyen wrote: >>>http://neutralzone.future.easyspace.com/Federation/StarFleet/GalaxyVent >>>ure03 .jpg >>> >>>(Note the tops of the warp nacelles) >> >> That's not even a GCS. >> >Looks like one too me, but the lighting and angle are lousy. Actually, it might be; the angle is really weird and I thought the saucer was connected directly to the nacelles at first. -- -LK! [ kynes@choam.org ] [ ICQ: 795238 ] [ AIM: Kynes23 ] There has been a control message sent out for a "alt.startrek.vs.starwars". Unfortunately, it was extremely badly done as it contains no newsgroup description or rationale at all (not even a tag)... What the above paragraph means is that, not only is the alt group dead in the water because of these misguided actions, but any attempt to create a group with the same name is probably dead in the water too. - From alt.config, 7/12/97 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 01:05:38 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9uf87t$7voau$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "Kynes" wrote in message news:sNgKPOguYfFOL6y7uQ5T8qegTyqf@4ax.com... > On Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:38:19 -0600, "Guardian 2000" wrote: > > >Take one DS9-era GCS . . . the USS Venture, part of the Federation task > >force which would've attempted to rescue the station from the Klingon Fleet > >in "Way of the Warrior"(DS9). > > > >http://neutralzone.future.easyspace.com/Federation/StarFleet/GalaxyVenture0 3 > >.jpg > > > >(Note the tops of the warp nacelles) > > That's not even a GCS. (shakes head) . . . Dumbass. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wayne Poe" Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 23:46:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- "Guardian 2000" wrote > "Kynes" wrote > > >(Note the tops of the warp nacelles) > > That's not even a GCS. > (shakes head) . . . Dumbass. Yeah, Kynes! Aren't you enough of a loser to tell your GCSs apart? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 02:44:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9ufe1s$804pe$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "Wayne Poe" wrote in message news:u0mbg2dqp0lt8a@corp.supernews.com... > > "Guardian 2000" wrote > > > "Kynes" wrote > > > > >(Note the tops of the warp nacelles) > > > > That's not even a GCS. > > > (shakes head) . . . Dumbass. > > Yeah, Kynes! Aren't you enough of a loser to tell your GCSs apart? His problem wasn't telling them apart . . . it was identifying one from a screen shot he had the opportunity to look at for as long as he wished. Of course, it was kind of you to defend him, and quite understandable given your inabilities to work with visual information (that whole perspective debate about the range of the MF's guns comes to mind). G2k ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wayne Poe" Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 02:37:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- "Guardian 2000" wrote > "Wayne Poe" wrote > Of course, it was kind of you to defend him, and quite understandable given > your inabilities to work with visual information (that whole perspective > debate about the range of the MF's guns comes to mind). Oh yeah, that OTHER debate you lost..right up there with the asteroid one where you thought two different asteroid explosions looked exactly the same! Yes, I remember now! -- I know that's wrong of course, but I just dislike logic. ---Guardian 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Guardian 2000 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 11:57:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0BBD05.80C91AF5@yahoo.com> -------- Wayne Poe wrote: > > "Guardian 2000" wrote > > > "Wayne Poe" wrote > > > Of course, it was kind of you to defend him, and quite understandable > given > > your inabilities to work with visual information (that whole perspective > > debate about the range of the MF's guns comes to mind). > > Oh yeah, that OTHER debate you lost..right up there with the asteroid one > where you thought two different asteroid explosions looked exactly the same! > Yes, I remember now! If you still think that your arguments were worth squat in either case, or that you somehow disproved my arguments in either case, then your mind is more warped than I was led to believe. > > -- > I know that's wrong of course, but I just dislike logic. > ---Guardian 2000 Ah, and a misquotation! How noble! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 12:39:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0BB8DE.E00F3749@daltonator.net> -------- Guardian 2000 wrote: > > "Wayne Poe" wrote in message > news:u0mbg2dqp0lt8a@corp.supernews.com... > > > > "Guardian 2000" wrote > > > > > "Kynes" wrote > > > > > > >(Note the tops of the warp nacelles) > > > > > > That's not even a GCS. > > > > > (shakes head) . . . Dumbass. > > > > Yeah, Kynes! Aren't you enough of a loser to tell your GCSs apart? > > His problem wasn't telling them apart . . . it was identifying one from a > screen shot he had the opportunity to look at for as long as he wished. > > Of course, it was kind of you to defend him, and quite understandable given > your inabilities to work with visual information (that whole perspective > debate about the range of the MF's guns comes to mind). Which you lost. -- Rob "Roby" Dalton http://daltonator.net Hooray for Caffeine ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 06:39:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9ut1l7$au63b$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "Dalton" wrote in message news:3C0BB8DE.E00F3749@daltonator.net... > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > "Wayne Poe" wrote in message > > news:u0mbg2dqp0lt8a@corp.supernews.com... > > > > > > "Guardian 2000" wrote > > > > > > > "Kynes" wrote > > > > > > > > >(Note the tops of the warp nacelles) > > > > > > > > That's not even a GCS. > > > > > > > (shakes head) . . . Dumbass. > > > > > > Yeah, Kynes! Aren't you enough of a loser to tell your GCSs apart? > > > > His problem wasn't telling them apart . . . it was identifying one from a > > screen shot he had the opportunity to look at for as long as he wished. > > > > Of course, it was kind of you to defend him, and quite understandable given > > your inabilities to work with visual information (that whole perspective > > debate about the range of the MF's guns comes to mind). > > Which you lost. Fact and reason were on my side, therefore I did not lose. You're either failing to remember correctly, failing to judge on the basis of fact and reason (instead choosing "Number of Irrelevancies Per Post" or "Number of Snide Remarks Per Post"). G2k ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 21:15:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net> -------- Guardian 2000 wrote: Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. -- Rob "Roby" Dalton http://daltonator.net "I need a drink." "You don't drink." "Yeah, but I've been meaning to start." ---UHF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phong Nguyen Date: 3 Dec 2001 02:28:17 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- Dalton wrote in news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net: > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. > There are some differences, notably the different warp nacelles, and the absense of windows on the 'inner' ring on the top of the saucer section. -- Phong Nguyen Email: phongn-at-antispam-northwestern-edu AIM: JediPhong "War is the continuation of politics by other means." Karl von Clausewitz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 21:58:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0AEA56.1E2CB29F@daltonator.net> -------- Phong Nguyen wrote: > > Dalton wrote in news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net: > > > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. > > > There are some differences, notably the different warp nacelles, and the > absense of windows on the 'inner' ring on the top of the saucer section. I said significant. -- Rob "Roby" Dalton http://daltonator.net "I need a drink." "You don't drink." "Yeah, but I've been meaning to start." ---UHF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phong Nguyen Date: 3 Dec 2001 03:02:58 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- Dalton wrote in news:3C0AEA56.1E2CB29F@daltonator.net: > Phong Nguyen wrote: >> >> Dalton wrote in >> news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net: >> >> > Guardian 2000 wrote: >> > >> > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. >> > >> There are some differences, notably the different warp nacelles, and >> the absense of windows on the 'inner' ring on the top of the saucer >> section. > > I said significant. > ::shrug:: I feel that the nacelles are fairly significant, and then there's that odd lighting on that one post. There should be a reason why they're like that. -- Phong Nguyen Email: phongn-at-antispam-northwestern-edu AIM: JediPhong "War is the continuation of politics by other means." Karl von Clausewitz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 22:13:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0AEDE2.C5491802@daltonator.net> -------- Phong Nguyen wrote: > > Dalton wrote in > news:3C0AEA56.1E2CB29F@daltonator.net: > > > Phong Nguyen wrote: > >> > >> Dalton wrote in > >> news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net: > >> > >> > Guardian 2000 wrote: > >> > > >> > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. > >> > > >> There are some differences, notably the different warp nacelles, and > >> the absense of windows on the 'inner' ring on the top of the saucer > >> section. > > > > I said significant. > > > ::shrug:: > > I feel that the nacelles are fairly significant, and then there's that > odd lighting on that one post. There should be a reason why they're like > that. New flourescent bulbs? -- Rob "Roby" Dalton http://daltonator.net "I need a drink." "You don't drink." "Yeah, but I've been meaning to start." ---UHF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phong Nguyen Date: 3 Dec 2001 03:29:32 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- Dalton wrote in news:3C0AEDE2.C5491802 @daltonator.net: > Phong Nguyen wrote: >> >> Dalton wrote in >> news:3C0AEA56.1E2CB29F@daltonator.net: >> >> > Phong Nguyen wrote: >> >> >> >> Dalton wrote in >> >> news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net: >> >> >> >> > Guardian 2000 wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. >> >> > >> >> There are some differences, notably the different warp nacelles, and >> >> the absense of windows on the 'inner' ring on the top of the saucer >> >> section. >> > >> > I said significant. >> > >> ::shrug:: >> >> I feel that the nacelles are fairly significant, and then there's that >> odd lighting on that one post. There should be a reason why they're like >> that. > > New flourescent bulbs? > I suppose the Federation is testing their newest line of flourescent bulbs in combat. I guess that's where they put all of their research dollars. -- Phong Nguyen Email: phongn-at-antispam-northwestern-edu AIM: JediPhong "War is the continuation of politics by other means." Karl von Clausewitz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 23:35:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0B0119.B21FA1F@daltonator.net> -------- Phong Nguyen wrote: > > Dalton wrote in news:3C0AEDE2.C5491802 > @daltonator.net: > > > Phong Nguyen wrote: > >> > >> Dalton wrote in > >> news:3C0AEA56.1E2CB29F@daltonator.net: > >> > >> > Phong Nguyen wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Dalton wrote in > >> >> news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net: > >> >> > >> >> > Guardian 2000 wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. > >> >> > > >> >> There are some differences, notably the different warp nacelles, > and > >> >> the absense of windows on the 'inner' ring on the top of the saucer > >> >> section. > >> > > >> > I said significant. > >> > > >> ::shrug:: > >> > >> I feel that the nacelles are fairly significant, and then there's that > >> odd lighting on that one post. There should be a reason why they're > like > >> that. > > > > New flourescent bulbs? > > > I suppose the Federation is testing their newest line of flourescent > bulbs in combat. I guess that's where they put all of their research > dollars. Oh yeah, things can get very dangerous if the interiors weren't lit so bright they looked like a fuckin TV set,,,,,, -- Rob "Roby" Dalton http://daltonator.net "I need a drink." "You don't drink." "Yeah, but I've been meaning to start." ---UHF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow {PHX}" Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:57:44 +0200 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- "Phong Nguyen" wrote in message news:Xns916BDAA19732Ephongnguyenusanet@130.133.1.4... > Dalton wrote in news:3C0AEDE2.C5491802 > @daltonator.net: > > > Phong Nguyen wrote: > >> > >> Dalton wrote in > >> news:3C0AEA56.1E2CB29F@daltonator.net: > >> > >> > Phong Nguyen wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Dalton wrote in > >> >> news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net: > >> >> > >> >> > Guardian 2000 wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. > >> >> > > >> >> There are some differences, notably the different warp nacelles, > and > >> >> the absense of windows on the 'inner' ring on the top of the saucer > >> >> section. > >> > > >> > I said significant. > >> > > >> ::shrug:: > >> > >> I feel that the nacelles are fairly significant, and then there's that > >> odd lighting on that one post. There should be a reason why they're > like > >> that. > > > > New flourescent bulbs? > > > I suppose the Federation is testing their newest line of flourescent > bulbs in combat. I guess that's where they put all of their research > dollars. They dont have dollars comrade Phong. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phong Nguyen Date: 3 Dec 2001 17:04:10 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- "His Divine Shadow {PHX}" wrote in news:WqFO7.52$s%4.2849@read2.inet.fi: > > "Phong Nguyen" wrote in message > news:Xns916BDAA19732Ephongnguyenusanet@130.133.1.4... >> Dalton wrote in news:3C0AEDE2.C5491802 >> @daltonator.net: >> >> > Phong Nguyen wrote: >> >> >> >> Dalton wrote in >> >> news:3C0AEA56.1E2CB29F@daltonator.net: >> >> >> >> > Phong Nguyen wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Dalton wrote in >> >> >> news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Guardian 2000 wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. >> >> >> > >> >> >> There are some differences, notably the different warp >> >> >> nacelles, >> and >> >> >> the absense of windows on the 'inner' ring on the top of the >> >> >> saucer section. >> >> > >> >> > I said significant. >> >> > >> >> ::shrug:: >> >> >> >> I feel that the nacelles are fairly significant, and then there's >> >> that odd lighting on that one post. There should be a reason why >> >> they're >> like >> >> that. >> > >> > New flourescent bulbs? >> > >> I suppose the Federation is testing their newest line of flourescent >> bulbs in combat. I guess that's where they put all of their research >> dollars. > > They dont have dollars comrade Phong. > You know what I mean. Now back to the forest! You're under your quota for the day! -- Phong Nguyen Email: phongn-at-antispam-northwestern-edu AIM: JediPhong "War is the continuation of politics by other means." Karl von Clausewitz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "C.S.Strowbridge" Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 20:34:32 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0BE210.D7FD7596@shaw.ca> -------- Phong Nguyen wrote: > > Dalton wrote: > > > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. > > There are some differences, notably the different warp nacelles, and the > absense of windows on the 'inner' ring on the top of the saucer section. Hardly proof that one's tougher than the other. The only thing it proves is that there are superficial differences. C.S.Strowbridge ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 01:15:39 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9uf8qn$82vq9$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "Dalton" wrote in message news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net... > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. . . . and the Nazis aboard the Graf Zeppelin saw no significant differences between what were actually radar towers and simple radio towers with lookout stations. We don't know what the differences are . . . are the little thingies atop the nacelles mere phaser emplacements? Enhancements to the warp drive? And what about that black cobra thing on the back of the Galaxy's neck? Is it armor? An unfinished hull section? A new type of shield emitter? It looks rather like the Sovereign's dark patches in a similar area . . . some sort of Sovereign-esque improvement? We don't know . . . but the point is, Chris was correct in pointing out Galaxy variants in existence during the Dominion War. G2k ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 12:39:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0BB8C5.42A0CDC9@daltonator.net> -------- Guardian 2000 wrote: > > "Dalton" wrote in message > news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net... > > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. > > . . . and the Nazis aboard the Graf Zeppelin saw no significant differences > between what were actually radar towers and simple radio towers with lookout > stations. Wow, that has...nothing to do with this. Wake the fuck up, this is not World War II. This is comparing blurry images of computer-generated ships. > We don't know what the differences are . . . are the little thingies atop > the nacelles mere phaser emplacements? Enhancements to the warp drive? Maybe they're thingies! Like you said. You have no proof. > And what about that black cobra thing on the back of the Galaxy's neck? Is > it armor? An unfinished hull section? A new type of shield emitter? Paint? > It > looks rather like the Sovereign's dark patches in a similar area . . . some > sort of Sovereign-esque improvement? New color scheme maybe. Like those bluer nacelles. They added 2000 flushes! > We don't know . . . but the point is, Chris was correct in pointing out > Galaxy variants in existence during the Dominion War. Oh gee, real big variance. Add some "thingies" and some paint on the "glowing blue thingies" and you suddenly have a whole new class of starship. Why did you base all your evidence on the blurriest pics you could find? -- Rob "Roby" Dalton http://daltonator.net Hooray for Caffeine ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:34:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9urg6c$aluu8$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "Dalton" wrote in message news:3C0BB8C5.42A0CDC9@daltonator.net... > Oh gee, real big variance. Add some "thingies" and some paint on the > "glowing blue thingies" and you suddenly have a whole new class of > starship. Why did you base all your evidence on the blurriest pics you > could find? > Those were not the blurriest pics I could find. You just need glasses. Indeed, as in the case of the Galaxy "Cobra", the pic offerred was the only one I could find, since another great source of pics has disappeared since last I checked it. Why are you freaked out by the idea that variations might have been crafted during the time of the Dominion War? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "C.S.Strowbridge" Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 21:13:40 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C0BEB3D.87D0EF6D@shaw.ca> -------- Guardian 2000 wrote: > We don't know what the differences are Yet they are declared War GCS and assumed to be 50% stronger by some Pro-ST people here. C.S.Strowbridge ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kynes Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:13:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- On Mon, 03 Dec 2001 21:13:40 GMT, "C.S.Strowbridge" wrote: >> We don't know what the differences are > >Yet they are declared War GCS and assumed to be 50% stronger by some >Pro-ST people here. In reality, the differences are probably NEGATIVE ones; in the Dominion War, the Federation was slapping together ships as quickly as it could. The "cobra thing" is probably a jury-rigged piece of hull to keep the damn thing from falling apart. -- -LK! [ kynes@choam.org ] [ ICQ: 795238 ] [ AIM: Kynes23 ] There has been a control message sent out for a "alt.startrek.vs.starwars". Unfortunately, it was extremely badly done as it contains no newsgroup description or rationale at all (not even a tag)... What the above paragraph means is that, not only is the alt group dead in the water because of these misguided actions, but any attempt to create a group with the same name is probably dead in the water too. - From alt.config, 7/12/97 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DMZ" Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 22:44:01 -0000 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <1007419442.3658.0.nnrp-01.3e31960d@news.demon.co.uk> -------- "Kynes" wrote in message news:ufgLPMMRuC+355ttyUsD43SmfiiO@4ax.com... > On Mon, 03 Dec 2001 21:13:40 GMT, "C.S.Strowbridge" > wrote: > > >> We don't know what the differences are > > > >Yet they are declared War GCS and assumed to be 50% stronger by some > >Pro-ST people here. > > In reality, the differences are probably NEGATIVE ones; in the Dominion War, the > Federation was slapping together ships as quickly as it could. The "cobra thing" > is probably a jury-rigged piece of hull to keep the damn thing from falling > apart. Nonsense. Building them quickly just means they haven't got time to install the holodecks, recreational lounge, indoor swimming pool, squash court, creche, ornamental fountain, museum of world cheeses, merry go round, rearrangeable deckchairs and all the other things the Federation usually deems vital in its front line war ships. Hell, they've probably got twice the power to weight ratio of the originals. Replacing the structural integrity field with duck tape is merely an inspired additional bonus. DMZ --- mhm33x4 + I don't have a name. I just have some stupid letters. + Please ask about our captive breeding programme. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:36:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9urg9c$adgup$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "C.S.Strowbridge" wrote in message news:3C0BEB3D.87D0EF6D@shaw.ca... > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > We don't know what the differences are > > Yet they are declared War GCS and assumed to be 50% stronger by some > Pro-ST people here. > > C.S.Strowbridge I am not one of them, for I have seen nothing to suggest how much more powerful the ships are, if at all. G2k ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 23:43:04 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: -------- "Guardian 2000" wrote in message news:9uf8qn$82vq9$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de... > > "Dalton" wrote in message > news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net... > > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. > > . . . and the Nazis aboard the Graf Zeppelin saw no significant differences > between what were actually radar towers and simple radio towers with lookout > stations. > That's because they were monitoring the wrong frequency or did you derive the wrong lesson from history as usual. The Germans were unsure whether or not Britain had managed to get a working set of radar atennae up, since they were familiar with the early concepts themselves. The Graf Zeppelin was sent to see if the vessel was being scanned by the radar waves in any way BUT they checke the wrong frequency thus the Germans, because they didn't know the frequency of operation, gathered misleading data. It isn't because they preconcieved a lack of difference where one existed it was that they had no evidence to suggest otherwise even though they knew differences to be possible. The point is learn history in totality before applying it, the incident here is non-analogous to the GCS variant. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R USMCR Bridge Company A, 6th EngnrSptBN, 4th FSSG "Everyone needs money, that's why its called MONEY." -Danny Devito from "Heist" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:43:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9urgmc$ah5ur$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:c6UO7.76662$Ze5.43434052@news1.rdc1.md.home.com... > "Guardian 2000" wrote in message > news:9uf8qn$82vq9$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "Dalton" wrote in message > > news:3C0AE033.67B565E8@daltonator.net... > > > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > > > Fucking spectacular, I can't see any significant differences. > > > > . . . and the Nazis aboard the Graf Zeppelin saw no significant > differences > > between what were actually radar towers and simple radio towers with > lookout > > stations. > > > The point is learn history in totality before applying it, the incident here > is non-analogous to the GCS variant. > It's not necessarily non-analogous . . . the radar towers were more of a threat than the Graf Zeppelin crew were led to believe. The Cobras could be, as well. The point of my analogy was to point out the fact that differences which may not appear significant can in fact have very significant effects. Take, as an example closer to the situation at hand, the superchargers aboard the P-38 Lightning. They were exposed on the upper part of the engine nacelle, but were nevertheless considered such secret technology that the United States did not include the superchargers on the planes it sold to Great Britain. The P-38, sans supercharger, was not the awe-inspiring warplane the Americans had, leading the British to refer to their P-38s as the "Castrated Lightning". Maybe the new little thingy on the top of Venture's nacelles is nothing. Maybe it's the GCS equivalent of a supercharger. The point is, we don't know . . . but your point that a variation exists is true, all the same. G2k ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nitramtahalshia@aol.comAntiSpam (Sir Nitram) Date: 07 Dec 2001 22:49:26 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <20011207174926.18499.00001842@mb-cg.aol.com> -------- >Maybe the new little thingy on the top of Venture's nacelles is nothing. >Maybe it's the GCS equivalent of a supercharger. The point is, we don't >know . . . but your point that a variation exists is true, all the same. But without proof, we do not grant these precious 'Cobra' variants any great advantage. Thank you, drive through. ------------------------------------ SirNitram ASVS Small Gods Keeper and Amateur Genius "We can reconstitute dead friends and lovers. Those who were us, can be yours again. We will make you Gods amongst your people!" -Last words of the Beast. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 06:40:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9ut1nh$au38r$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "Sir Nitram" wrote in message news:20011207174926.18499.00001842@mb-cg.aol.com... > >Maybe the new little thingy on the top of Venture's nacelles is nothing. > >Maybe it's the GCS equivalent of a supercharger. The point is, we don't > >know . . . but your point that a variation exists is true, all the same. > > But without proof, we do not grant these precious 'Cobra' variants any great > advantage. Thank you, drive through. Nor was I asking you to. G2k ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graeme Dice Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 23:51:55 GMT Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <3C1155B6.7F56F10A@sk.sympatico.ca> -------- Guardian 2000 wrote: > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:c6UO7.76662$Ze5.43434052@news1.rdc1.md.home.com... > > "Guardian 2000" wrote in message > > news:9uf8qn$82vq9$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de... > > > > Maybe the new little thingy on the top of Venture's nacelles is nothing. > Maybe it's the GCS equivalent of a supercharger. The point is, we don't > know . . . but your point that a variation exists is true, all the same. More likely its the subspace safety device. Graeme Dice -- The personal computer market is about the same size as the total potato chip market. Next year it will be about half the size of the pet food market and is fast approaching the total worldwide sales of panty hose. -- James Finke, President, Commodore International Ltd. (1982) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 06:41:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Kinda slow here, so I'll start this thread/poll thingy Message-ID: <9ut1p5$au88f$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- "Graeme Dice" wrote in message news:3C1155B6.7F56F10A@sk.sympatico.ca... > Guardian 2000 wrote: > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:c6UO7.76662$Ze5.43434052@news1.rdc1.md.home.com... > > > "Guardian 2000" wrote in message > > > news:9uf8qn$82vq9$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > > > > > Maybe the new little thingy on the top of Venture's nacelles is nothing. > > Maybe it's the GCS equivalent of a supercharger. The point is, we don't > > know . . . but your point that a variation exists is true, all the same. > > More likely its the subspace safety device. > > Graeme Dice Nah. It's really the warp drive equivalent of putting a playing card in the spokes of a bicycle. :-) G2k