---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Phil Skayhan" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 04:23:49 GMT Subject: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) Just for an easy reference if you don't wish to flip back and forth between the films and you (hopefully) have a decent connection to download this. Mainly for Kaz, DarkStar, Wilkens, Nitram, Stuart, Alan, and the rest of the crew over in "Federation can't win" Then again, considering the number of people who viewed Kynes' 15 meg Jello documentary, I shouldn't be concerned. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 01:16:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > Just for an easy reference if you don't wish to flip back and forth between > the films and you (hopefully) have a decent connection to download this. > > Mainly for Kaz, DarkStar, Wilkens, Nitram, Stuart, Alan, and the rest of the > crew over in "Federation can't win" > > Then again, considering the number of people who viewed Kynes' 15 meg Jello > documentary, I shouldn't be concerned. > 404 -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Phil Skayhan" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:20:42 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:agj4dd$lq6ot$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > 404 Ahem..... http://www.skayhan.net/Vidcaps/Rings.zip ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:30:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message news:KA8X8.7268$I02.6850@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:agj4dd$lq6ot$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > > news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > > > > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > > > 404 > > Ahem..... > > http://www.skayhan.net/Vidcaps/Rings.zip > > Much better, go back to serving drinks to minors...I mean...oh nevermind. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:52:29 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message news:KA8X8.7268$I02.6850@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:agj4dd$lq6ot$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > > news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > > > > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > > > 404 > > Ahem..... > > http://www.skayhan.net/Vidcaps/Rings.zip Very nice. I'd never noticed the dim trailing ring coming off DS1 before. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:09:40 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: <83bX8.79500$Im2.3539715@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:MW9X8.33513$iX5.1422627@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > news:KA8X8.7268$I02.6850@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:agj4dd$lq6ot$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > > > news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > > > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > > > > > > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > > > > > 404 > > > > Ahem..... > > > > http://www.skayhan.net/Vidcaps/Rings.zip > > > Very nice. I'd never noticed the dim trailing ring coming off DS1 before. Very nice, again. Just wanted to repeat that. :) I'd also never noticed the fact that the DS2 explosion propagates from the approximate center of mass, not the center of the station (where the reactor would be). Strange. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:54:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:83bX8.79500$Im2.3539715@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:MW9X8.33513$iX5.1422627@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > > news:KA8X8.7268$I02.6850@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > news:agj4dd$lq6ot$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > > > > news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > > > > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > > > > > > > > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > > > > > > > 404 > > > > > > Ahem..... > > > > > > http://www.skayhan.net/Vidcaps/Rings.zip > > > > > > Very nice. I'd never noticed the dim trailing ring coming off DS1 > before. > > Very nice, again. Just wanted to repeat that. :) > > I'd also never noticed the fact that the DS2 explosion propagates from the > approximate center of mass, not the center of the station (where the reactor > would be). Strange. > I'd like to see how you came up with that, to all appearences it emerges form the center of the station which WOULD be the center of mass as the vast majority of the station's mass is going to be in the reactor (given the mass-energy density planet-killing requires). -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:56:03 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: <7ByX8.54350$iX5.2477496@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:aglndq$mvkj1$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:83bX8.79500$Im2.3539715@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:MW9X8.33513$iX5.1422627@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > > > news:KA8X8.7268$I02.6850@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > news:agj4dd$lq6ot$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > > > > > news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > > > > > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > > > > > > > > > > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > > > > > > > > > 404 > > > > > > > > Ahem..... > > > > > > > > http://www.skayhan.net/Vidcaps/Rings.zip > > > > > > > > > Very nice. I'd never noticed the dim trailing ring coming off DS1 > > before. > > > > Very nice, again. Just wanted to repeat that. :) > > > > I'd also never noticed the fact that the DS2 explosion propagates from the > > approximate center of mass, not the center of the station (where the > reactor > > would be). Strange. > > > > I'd like to see how you came up with that, to all appearences it emerges > form the center of the station which WOULD be the center of mass as the vast > majority of the station's mass is going to be in the reactor (given the > mass-energy density planet-killing requires). Look at the frame right before it explodes. If you have to, put a dot of some sort on your screen over the center of the Death Star (as if it was complete). I just used a ruler. Then look at the explosion. It is way over on the left. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:58:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > Just for an easy reference if you don't wish to flip back and forth between > the films and you (hopefully) have a decent connection to download this. > > Mainly for Kaz, DarkStar, Wilkens, Nitram, Stuart, Alan, and the rest of the > crew over in "Federation can't win" > > Then again, considering the number of people who viewed Kynes' 15 meg Jello > documentary, I shouldn't be concerned. > Okay here's my initial commentary: 1) Only Alderaan's destruction produces a full on 2nd ring, the DS1/2 destructions have a sort of after-image version of a second ring but it moves at the same speed as the first ring so i think it safe to assume it is part of the first ring. 2) The 1st ring from Alderaan shows up above the atmosphere adn shield 3) I now have all the proof I need that Alderaan still has a shield, and once I stop being lazy I'll have it up on my site. 4) The ring after DS2's destruction dissipated at frame 583 after appearing at frame 423. This 160 frames is the burn time for the ring (was this 24 fps, 30 fps, what was it Phil?) 5) Still miffed by the ring orientation bit (DS1 its on a north-south plane while Alderaan and DS2 have theirs on an east-west plane.) 6) Alderaan was bruned over by the superlaser AND exploded from within. I'd guess this means that both parts of the SL have energy (the burning doesn't start till the visible beam arrives but the speed of the blast suggests that energy is already being input into the core. More to come in the days and hours ahead. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:51:54 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:agjad5$m7ced$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message > news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > > > Just for an easy reference if you don't wish to flip back and forth > between > > the films and you (hopefully) have a decent connection to download this. > > > > Mainly for Kaz, DarkStar, Wilkens, Nitram, Stuart, Alan, and the rest of > the > > crew over in "Federation can't win" > > > > Then again, considering the number of people who viewed Kynes' 15 meg > Jello > > documentary, I shouldn't be concerned. > > > > Okay here's my initial commentary: > > 1) Only Alderaan's destruction produces a full on 2nd ring, the DS1/2 > destructions have a sort of after-image version of a second ring but it > moves at the same speed as the first ring so i think it safe to assume it is > part of the first ring. Only the DS1 explosion produces a "ringlet". DS2 explodes with one ring which is not centered on the location of the reactor, but instead is centered around the neighborhood of the superlaser, which had already given off some sort of energy before the whole DS2 goes up. The position is approximately the location of the center of mass of the incomplete Death Star. And now, as I watch DS1 go up again, it also shows a ring emanating, not from dead center, but centered more around the superlaser area. But, even on my big monitor, and at double zoom, the entire Death Star is only an inch across, so I'll withhold judgement on that. Back to the point, the shielded Death Star I's ring also appears above any location of a shield. However, Death Star II was unshielded at the time. Death Star II's ring appeared more or less over the Death Star's horizon, though it looks like the right side of the ring would have been _under_ the surface when it appears, due to the off-center nature of the explosion. > 2) The 1st ring from Alderaan shows up above the atmosphere adn shield Correct, the ring does show up above the atmosphere, and above the likely location of a shield. Again, however, DS2 was unshielded and still produced the ring. > 4) The ring after DS2's destruction dissipated at frame 583 after appearing > at frame 423. This 160 frames is the burn time for the ring (was this 24 > fps, 30 fps, what was it Phil?) I read it as being 30fps > 5) Still miffed by the ring orientation bit (DS1 its on a north-south plane > while Alderaan and DS2 have theirs on an east-west plane.) Actually, DS2's ring is a bit off of the lateral plane. The frame before the explosion begins shows that the DS2 is pointed slightly up, from our point of view, while the ring actually points slightly down. We can't be sure about where Alderaan's equator is, but if the ring comes from that area, then yes it is oriented along that plane, which puts it between ten and fifteen degrees off from the angle of the superlaser. As for DS1, its ring does not appear to be oriented in any particular fashion. The Death Star is slightly tilted by about 10 or 15 degrees, while the ring is tilted about 15 degrees in the opposite direction, for a total of 25 or 30 degrees. > 6) Alderaan was bruned over by the superlaser AND exploded from within. I'd > guess this means that both parts of the SL have energy (the burning doesn't > start till the visible beam arrives but the speed of the blast suggests that > energy is already being input into the core. What are you talking about? What is the second part of the superlaser that would cause the huge secondary explosion? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Phil Skayhan" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:11:08 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:KGbX8.79966$Im2.3554905@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:agjad5$m7ced$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > 4) The ring after DS2's destruction dissipated at frame 583 after > appearing > > at frame 423. This 160 frames is the burn time for the ring (was this 24 > > fps, 30 fps, what was it Phil?) > > I read it as being 30fps Yes 30fps which matches the CLV laserdisc format for the destruction of Alderaan and DS II. The destruction of the original DS is from a 24fps CAV disc also recorded at 30fps so there the clip adds 6fps in that segment. This is important if you try to establish time esimates, since the original film is 24fps, the total number of frames added is 120. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:15:50 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message news:MtfX8.669$7W6.257@nwrddc02.gnilink.net... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:KGbX8.79966$Im2.3554905@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:agjad5$m7ced$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > 4) The ring after DS2's destruction dissipated at frame 583 after > > appearing > > > at frame 423. This 160 frames is the burn time for the ring (was this 24 > > > fps, 30 fps, what was it Phil?) > > > > I read it as being 30fps > > Yes 30fps which matches the CLV laserdisc format for the destruction of > Alderaan and DS II. The destruction of the original DS is from a 24fps CAV > disc also recorded at 30fps so there the clip adds 6fps in that segment. > > This is important if you try to establish time esimates, since the original > film is 24fps, the total number of frames added is 120. Cool, thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:07:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:KGbX8.79966$Im2.3554905@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > > > > Okay here's my initial commentary: > > > > 1) Only Alderaan's destruction produces a full on 2nd ring, the DS1/2 > > destructions have a sort of after-image version of a second ring but it > > moves at the same speed as the first ring so i think it safe to assume it > is > > part of the first ring. > > Only the DS1 explosion produces a "ringlet". DS2 explodes with one ring > which is not centered on the location of the reactor, but instead is > centered around the neighborhood of the superlaser, which had already given > off some sort of energy before the whole DS2 goes up. The position is > approximately the location of the center of mass of the incomplete Death > Star. I completely disagree, the ring emerges from approximately the same location as the brim trench was at. Remember that we are viewing this head on to the trench so there is a slight perspective effect at work here. > And now, as I watch DS1 go up again, it also shows a ring emanating, not > from dead center, but centered more around the superlaser area. But, even on > my big monitor, and at double zoom, the entire Death Star is only an inch > across, so I'll withhold judgement on that. Again I think perspective is messing with you, it appears to me to be on a normal N-S orientation which, though it does cut through the SL dish, is still centered on the center of the station. > Back to the point, the shielded Death Star I's ring also appears above any > location of a shield. However, Death Star II was unshielded at the time. > Death Star II's ring appeared more or less over the Death Star's horizon, > though it looks like the right side of the ring would have been _under_ the > surface when it appears, due to the off-center nature of the explosion. The ring as a whole it visible in the second frame (possibly the first I'm still unsure if its a trick or not) after the explosion begins. It is clearly above the old surface level on all sides and I still contend that enter of mass for the ring is at the center of the reactor core. > > 2) The 1st ring from Alderaan shows up above the atmosphere adn shield > > Correct, the ring does show up above the atmosphere, and above the likely > location of a shield. Again, however, DS2 was unshielded and still produced > the ring. Oh I think this is something that might be the cause of the first ring thus explaining why Alderaan had 2 full rings and the DSs only had 1 full ring (the ringlet I think can be explained differently). > > > 4) The ring after DS2's destruction dissipated at frame 583 after > appearing > > at frame 423. This 160 frames is the burn time for the ring (was this 24 > > fps, 30 fps, what was it Phil?) > > I read it as being 30fps > Okay 30fps with 24 suppsoedly the original this means that a total of 32 frames were added (roughly) for an original frame count of 128. Anyway back to the point this means 5.3 seconds is the time needed rom the point the ring breeches the surface to its dissipation. > > 5) Still miffed by the ring orientation bit (DS1 its on a north-south > plane > > while Alderaan and DS2 have theirs on an east-west plane.) > > Actually, DS2's ring is a bit off of the lateral plane. The frame before > the explosion begins shows that the DS2 is pointed slightly up, from our > point of view, while the ring actually points slightly down. We're also above the plane of the DS2 so it should be expected that the ring would appear below us while the DS2s orientation doesn't affect its center of mass (which I contend is the point of origin). > We can't be sure about where Alderaan's equator is, but if the ring comes > from that area, then yes it is oriented along that plane, which puts it > between ten and fifteen degrees off from the angle of the superlaser. As > for DS1, its ring does not appear to be oriented in any particular fashion. > The Death Star is slightly tilted by about 10 or 15 degrees, while the ring > is tilted about 15 degrees in the opposite direction, for a total of 25 or > 30 degrees. Again I think perspective is coming into play with all of those (even Alderaan). The orintation (especially with Alderaan) is largely why I am guessing towards magnetic field lines as I don't care where the SL hits it but I do care about where it would "detonate." > > 6) Alderaan was bruned over by the superlaser AND exploded from within. > I'd > > guess this means that both parts of the SL have energy (the burning > doesn't > > start till the visible beam arrives but the speed of the blast suggests > that > > energy is already being input into the core. > > What are you talking about? What is the second part of the superlaser that > would cause the huge secondary explosion? SLs are compound TLs which means they are hybrid EM and Plasma weapons with the beam head traveling at c while the palsmna portion (the visible porion) travels slower and packs the second punch. In other words the beam has already peireced through and is starting to disrupt the planet when the plasma hits and burns over the planet. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:59:59 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:aglo73$mhn8a$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:KGbX8.79966$Im2.3554905@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > > > > > > > Okay here's my initial commentary: > > > > > > 1) Only Alderaan's destruction produces a full on 2nd ring, the DS1/2 > > > destructions have a sort of after-image version of a second ring but it > > > moves at the same speed as the first ring so i think it safe to assume > it > > is > > > part of the first ring. > > > > Only the DS1 explosion produces a "ringlet". DS2 explodes with one ring > > which is not centered on the location of the reactor, but instead is > > centered around the neighborhood of the superlaser, which had already > given > > off some sort of energy before the whole DS2 goes up. The position is > > approximately the location of the center of mass of the incomplete Death > > Star. > > I completely disagree, the ring emerges from approximately the same location > as the brim trench was at. Remember that we are viewing this head on to the > trench so there is a slight perspective effect at work here. Perspective does not explain _left_. > > > And now, as I watch DS1 go up again, it also shows a ring emanating, not > > from dead center, but centered more around the superlaser area. But, even > on > > my big monitor, and at double zoom, the entire Death Star is only an inch > > across, so I'll withhold judgement on that. > > Again I think perspective is messing with you, it appears to me to be on a > normal N-S orientation which, though it does cut through the SL dish, is > still centered on the center of the station. Well, that's too bad. I have a 20 inch monitor that disagrees with you. > > > Back to the point, the shielded Death Star I's ring also appears above any > > location of a shield. However, Death Star II was unshielded at the time. > > Death Star II's ring appeared more or less over the Death Star's horizon, > > though it looks like the right side of the ring would have been _under_ > the > > surface when it appears, due to the off-center nature of the explosion. > > The ring as a whole it visible in the second frame (possibly the first I'm > still unsure if its a trick or not) after the explosion begins. It is > clearly above the old surface level on all sides and I still contend that > enter of mass for the ring is at the center of the reactor core. > > > > 2) The 1st ring from Alderaan shows up above the atmosphere adn shield > > > > Correct, the ring does show up above the atmosphere, and above the likely > > location of a shield. Again, however, DS2 was unshielded and still > produced > > the ring. > > Oh I think this is something that might be the cause of the first ring thus > explaining why Alderaan had 2 full rings and the DSs only had 1 full ring > (the ringlet I think can be explained differently). That makes no sense, and is ad hoc theorizing. > > > > > > 4) The ring after DS2's destruction dissipated at frame 583 after > > appearing > > > at frame 423. This 160 frames is the burn time for the ring (was this 24 > > > fps, 30 fps, what was it Phil?) > > > > I read it as being 30fps > > > > Okay 30fps with 24 suppsoedly the original this means that a total of 32 > frames were added (roughly) for an original frame count of 128. Anyway back > to the point this means 5.3 seconds is the time needed rom the point the > ring breeches the surface to its dissipation. > > > > 5) Still miffed by the ring orientation bit (DS1 its on a north-south > > plane > > > while Alderaan and DS2 have theirs on an east-west plane.) > > > > Actually, DS2's ring is a bit off of the lateral plane. The frame before > > the explosion begins shows that the DS2 is pointed slightly up, from our > > point of view, while the ring actually points slightly down. > > We're also above the plane of the DS2 so it should be expected that the ring > would appear below us while the DS2s orientation doesn't affect its center > of mass (which I contend is the point of origin). > How can we be above and below the plane of DS2 at the same time? > > We can't be sure about where Alderaan's equator is, but if the ring comes > > from that area, then yes it is oriented along that plane, which puts it > > between ten and fifteen degrees off from the angle of the superlaser. As > > for DS1, its ring does not appear to be oriented in any particular > fashion. > > The Death Star is slightly tilted by about 10 or 15 degrees, while the > ring > > is tilted about 15 degrees in the opposite direction, for a total of 25 or > > 30 degrees. > > Again I think perspective is coming into play with all of those (even > Alderaan). The orintation (especially with Alderaan) is largely why I am > guessing towards magnetic field lines as I don't care where the SL hits it > but I do care about where it would "detonate." Your run-on sentences make my head hurt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:01:51 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:aglo73$mhn8a$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:KGbX8.79966$Im2.3554905@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > > > > > > > Okay here's my initial commentary: > > > > > > 1) Only Alderaan's destruction produces a full on 2nd ring, the DS1/2 > > > destructions have a sort of after-image version of a second ring but it > > > moves at the same speed as the first ring so i think it safe to assume > it > > is > > > part of the first ring. > > > > Only the DS1 explosion produces a "ringlet". DS2 explodes with one ring > > which is not centered on the location of the reactor, but instead is > > centered around the neighborhood of the superlaser, which had already > given > > off some sort of energy before the whole DS2 goes up. The position is > > approximately the location of the center of mass of the incomplete Death > > Star. > > I completely disagree, the ring emerges from approximately the same location > as the brim trench was at. Remember that we are viewing this head on to the > trench so there is a slight perspective effect at work here. > > > And now, as I watch DS1 go up again, it also shows a ring emanating, not > > from dead center, but centered more around the superlaser area. But, even > on > > my big monitor, and at double zoom, the entire Death Star is only an inch > > across, so I'll withhold judgement on that. > > Again I think perspective is messing with you, it appears to me to be on a > normal N-S orientation which, though it does cut through the SL dish, is > still centered on the center of the station. > > > Back to the point, the shielded Death Star I's ring also appears above any > > location of a shield. However, Death Star II was unshielded at the time. > > Death Star II's ring appeared more or less over the Death Star's horizon, > > though it looks like the right side of the ring would have been _under_ > the > > surface when it appears, due to the off-center nature of the explosion. > > The ring as a whole it visible in the second frame (possibly the first I'm > still unsure if its a trick or not) after the explosion begins. It is > clearly above the old surface level on all sides and I still contend that > enter of mass for the ring is at the center of the reactor core. > > > > 2) The 1st ring from Alderaan shows up above the atmosphere adn shield > > > > Correct, the ring does show up above the atmosphere, and above the likely > > location of a shield. Again, however, DS2 was unshielded and still > produced > > the ring. > > Oh I think this is something that might be the cause of the first ring thus > explaining why Alderaan had 2 full rings and the DSs only had 1 full ring > (the ringlet I think can be explained differently). > > > > > > 4) The ring after DS2's destruction dissipated at frame 583 after > > appearing > > > at frame 423. This 160 frames is the burn time for the ring (was this 24 > > > fps, 30 fps, what was it Phil?) > > > > I read it as being 30fps > > > > Okay 30fps with 24 suppsoedly the original this means that a total of 32 > frames were added (roughly) for an original frame count of 128. Anyway back > to the point this means 5.3 seconds is the time needed rom the point the > ring breeches the surface to its dissipation. > > > > 5) Still miffed by the ring orientation bit (DS1 its on a north-south > > plane > > > while Alderaan and DS2 have theirs on an east-west plane.) > > > > Actually, DS2's ring is a bit off of the lateral plane. The frame before > > the explosion begins shows that the DS2 is pointed slightly up, from our > > point of view, while the ring actually points slightly down. > > We're also above the plane of the DS2 so it should be expected that the ring > would appear below us while the DS2s orientation doesn't affect its center > of mass (which I contend is the point of origin). > > > We can't be sure about where Alderaan's equator is, but if the ring comes > > from that area, then yes it is oriented along that plane, which puts it > > between ten and fifteen degrees off from the angle of the superlaser. As > > for DS1, its ring does not appear to be oriented in any particular > fashion. > > The Death Star is slightly tilted by about 10 or 15 degrees, while the > ring > > is tilted about 15 degrees in the opposite direction, for a total of 25 or > > 30 degrees. > > Again I think perspective is coming into play with all of those (even > Alderaan). The orintation (especially with Alderaan) is largely why I am > guessing towards magnetic field lines as I don't care where the SL hits it > but I do care about where it would "detonate." > > > > > 6) Alderaan was bruned over by the superlaser AND exploded from within. > > I'd > > > guess this means that both parts of the SL have energy (the burning > > doesn't > > > start till the visible beam arrives but the speed of the blast suggests > > that > > > energy is already being input into the core. > > > > What are you talking about? What is the second part of the superlaser > that > > would cause the huge secondary explosion? > > SLs are compound TLs which means they are hybrid EM and Plasma weapons with > the beam head traveling at c while the palsmna portion (the visible porion) > travels slower and packs the second punch. In other words the beam has > already peireced through and is starting to disrupt the planet when the > plasma hits and burns over the planet. More or less what I think, though I think the plasma only packs a small punch of the invisible beam. I believe the plasma or bolt is created by interactions of the particles in the beam itself, and while they only carry a small fraction of the bolt they can exist for a while after the beam stops. Still in this case, even if it's just <0.01% of the superlaser as plasma is around 1e34joules. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart Mackey" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:39:35 +1200 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Phil Skayhan" wrote in message news:pL7X8.7258$I02.6763@nwrddc04.gnilink.net... > Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > Just for an easy reference if you don't wish to flip back and forth between > the films and you (hopefully) have a decent connection to download this. > > Mainly for Kaz, DarkStar, Wilkens, Nitram, Stuart, Alan, and the rest of the > crew over in "Federation can't win" > > Then again, considering the number of people who viewed Kynes' 15 meg Jello > documentary, I shouldn't be concerned. Brilliant. I woulld like to say that I hate NZ ISPs for not having affordable flat rate broadband, 56k is no fun for this file takes 25 min. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Boyd Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:02:55 +0100 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- Stuart Mackey wrote: >> Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) >> www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) >> Just for an easy reference if you don't wish to flip back and forth between >> the films and you (hopefully) have a decent connection to download this. >> Mainly for Kaz, DarkStar, Wilkens, Nitram, Stuart, Alan, and the rest of the >> crew over in "Federation can't win" >> Then again, considering the number of people who viewed Kynes' 15 meg Jello >> documentary, I shouldn't be concerned. > Brilliant. > I woulld like to say that I hate NZ ISPs for not having affordable flat rate > broadband, 56k is no fun for this file takes 25 min. That's what parents are for - let them buy it, get them to go off on holiday, look after the house and be wired up permanently to the Mac. -- Jonathan Boyd MSN/AIM: EmperorBoyd | Web: http://www.jboyd.co.uk/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart Mackey" Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:43:01 +1200 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Jonathan Boyd" wrote in message news:B953408F.345F%jonathanboyd@mac.com... > Stuart Mackey wrote: > > >> Contains all examples of the ring effect (Alderaan, DS 1&2) > > >> www.skayhan.net/vidcap/Rings.zip (20 sec, 7.3M) > > >> Just for an easy reference if you don't wish to flip back and forth between > >> the films and you (hopefully) have a decent connection to download this. > > >> Mainly for Kaz, DarkStar, Wilkens, Nitram, Stuart, Alan, and the rest of the > >> crew over in "Federation can't win" > > >> Then again, considering the number of people who viewed Kynes' 15 meg Jello > >> documentary, I shouldn't be concerned. > > > Brilliant. > > I woulld like to say that I hate NZ ISPs for not having affordable flat rate > > broadband, 56k is no fun for this file takes 25 min. > > That's what parents are for - let them buy it, get them to go off on > holiday, look after the house and be wired up permanently to the Mac. All right for some, I have a mortgage and bills and rates and car costs.. the list just never ends. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Boyd Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:52:06 +0100 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- Stuart Mackey wrote: >>> Brilliant. >>> I woulld like to say that I hate NZ ISPs for not having affordable flat rate >>> broadband, 56k is no fun for this file takes 25 min. >> That's what parents are for - let them buy it, get them to go off on >> holiday, look after the house and be wired up permanently to the Mac. > All right for some, I have a mortgage and bills and rates and car costs.. > the list just never ends. And I have... A student loan to be repaid in a few years time when I get a job. -- Jonathan Boyd MSN/AIM: EmperorBoyd | Web: http://www.jboyd.co.uk/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart Mackey" Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 22:27:17 +1200 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Jonathan Boyd" wrote in message news:B9548F86.369E%jonathanboyd@mac.com... > Stuart Mackey wrote: > > >>> Brilliant. > >>> I woulld like to say that I hate NZ ISPs for not having affordable flat rate > >>> broadband, 56k is no fun for this file takes 25 min. > > >> That's what parents are for - let them buy it, get them to go off on > >> holiday, look after the house and be wired up permanently to the Mac. > > > All right for some, I have a mortgage and bills and rates and car costs.. > > the list just never ends. > > And I have... A student loan to be repaid in a few years time when I get a > job. Argghyhh..student loan..thats another thing to be paid off.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Boyd Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 12:22:30 +0100 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- Stuart Mackey wrote: >>> All right for some, I have a mortgage and bills and rates and car costs.. >>> the list just never ends. >> And I have... A student loan to be repaid in a few years time when I get a >> job. > Argghyhh..student loan..thats another thing to be paid off.... Lucky us, eh? -- Jonathan Boyd MSN/AIM: EmperorBoyd | Web: http://www.jboyd.co.uk/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart Mackey" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:20:51 +1200 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Jonathan Boyd" wrote in message news:B955CC06.38B7%jonathanboyd@mac.com... > Stuart Mackey wrote: > > >>> All right for some, I have a mortgage and bills and rates and car costs.. > >>> the list just never ends. > > >> And I have... A student loan to be repaid in a few years time when I get a > >> job. > > > Argghyhh..student loan..thats another thing to be paid off.... > > Lucky us, eh? Ohh yeah, with that kind of luck, who needs enemys. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Boyd Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:13:10 +0100 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- Stuart Mackey wrote: > > "Jonathan Boyd" wrote in message > news:B955CC06.38B7%jonathanboyd@mac.com... >> Stuart Mackey wrote: >> >>>>> All right for some, I have a mortgage and bills and rates and car > costs.. >>>>> the list just never ends. >> >>>> And I have... A student loan to be repaid in a few years time when I > get a >>>> job. >> >>> Argghyhh..student loan..thats another thing to be paid off.... >> >> Lucky us, eh? > > Ohh yeah, with that kind of luck, who needs enemys. Me. You can't hold a public execution to keep the local populace happy if all you have to execute is a student loan. -- Jonathan Boyd MSN/AIM: EmperorBoyd | Web: http://www.jboyd.co.uk/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart Mackey" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:59:14 +1200 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- "Jonathan Boyd" wrote in message news:B9593FC6.3D92%jonathanboyd@mac.com... > Stuart Mackey wrote: > > > > > "Jonathan Boyd" wrote in message > > news:B955CC06.38B7%jonathanboyd@mac.com... > >> Stuart Mackey wrote: > >> > >>>>> All right for some, I have a mortgage and bills and rates and car > > costs.. > >>>>> the list just never ends. > >> > >>>> And I have... A student loan to be repaid in a few years time when I > > get a > >>>> job. > >> > >>> Argghyhh..student loan..thats another thing to be paid off.... > >> > >> Lucky us, eh? > > > > Ohh yeah, with that kind of luck, who needs enemys. > > Me. You can't hold a public execution to keep the local populace happy if > all you have to execute is a student loan. Backward Irish :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Boyd Date: 16 Jul 2002 14:24:25 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: <20020716152432483+0100@news.cis.dfn.de> -------- Stuart Mackey wrote: >> > Ohh yeah, with that kind of luck, who needs enemys. >> >> Me. You can't hold a public execution to keep the local populace >> happy if all you have to execute is a student loan. > > Backward Irish :) Convict Kiwis :^p -- Jonathan Boyd AIM/MSN: EmperorBoyd | Web: http://www.jboyd.co.uk/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fenix_burns@yahoo.com (Eleas) Date: 16 Jul 2002 22:07:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: -------- Jonathan Boyd wrote in message news:... > Stuart Mackey wrote: > > That's what parents are for - let them buy it, get them to go off on > holiday, look after the house and be wired up permanently to the Mac. That sounds like someone's definition of hell. :-p -- Björn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Boyd Date: 17 Jul 2002 15:47:18 GMT Subject: Re: Ring Effect Vid now up Message-ID: <20020717164723662+0100@news.cis.dfn.de> -------- Eleas wrote: > Jonathan Boyd wrote in message news: 345F%jonathanboyd@mac.com>... >> Stuart Mackey wrote: >> >> That's what parents are for - let them buy it, get them to go off on >> holiday, look after the house and be wired up permanently to the Mac. > > That sounds like someone's definition of hell. :-p Oh, that reminds me, must reply to your email. This is what happens when I stop using Emntourage for news. Forget to check my email. -- Jonathan Boyd AIM/MSN: EmperorBoyd | Web: http://www.jboyd.co.uk/