---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ray_blake@hotmail.com (Ray Blake) Date: 19 Aug 2001 20:26:35 -0700 Subject: Wow, thanks for the response. Message-ID: -------- This seems to be a good list. I've been on a few and it's like, if your new, forget it, no one responds or if they do they're quite rude. It's a nice change. Now for me to start making some enemies. I have to say that I didn't think that turbolasers were that powerful. I thought that maybe combined in twos or threes they might equal one of Enterprise E's phaser arrays. Evidence presented seems to contradict this, but I have mostly seen SW's sides. I too thought that SW sensors relied on passive means to detect objects in Hyperspace. I have some ideas on that, but I will need some time to formulate them further. One thing I must say is that I think that ST shields and sensors are underestimated. And one thing that no one is mentioning is computer power. ST has it in spades. They are primarily explorers. SW doesn't appear to. And I don't think that SW has the ability to jam Subspace sensors. But MOST, that is, I repeat, MOST SW sensors appear to be EM based. Which could be jammed, maybe even zorched by ST ships. Zorch? you ask. What is 'zorch'. Well, if an Aegis cruiser were to pump it's entire radar output, about 4 million watts, into the arc of an attacking craft, it's radar would most definitely be gone, possibly blowing out the enire electrical system. AWACS also are said to be able to do this. I think the Feds could as well. But I could be wrong. Also, The Feds can move and attack at beyond light speed, while SW ships in hyperspace can't interact with the subluminal universe. Also, the Feds employ a field drive as their sublight drive. Does a SSD do the same? If so, why does it have great big engines at the back. Granted, they could be exhaust ports for the reactor, but I am willing to be corrected. I just don't think that an SSD is as maneuverable as the Enterprise. Also, the Feds don't really use what I consider to be a great potential weapon-warp speed rocks. Very cheap and effective. SW hyperspace doesn't transmit inertia, etc when objects exit. But hey, that's just one of my personal peeves, not really relevant here. Though it could be, if the Fed were hard pressed. I think that the Fed is in a better position to counter the Empires weapons than the Empire is to do the same. They are researchers, they have brilliant scientist and engineers on every ship, while that isn't... CAN'T be prevalent on a military vessel. It seems to me that the Empire might, at least inadvertently, discourage innotative ideas. That is, if they have a cahnce to draw back. I have to say that the Empire is well ahead in the Firepower area, even if only MY expectations of their weapons systems were right. As NATO commanders were fond of saying during the Cold War years, "Quantity has a quality all it's own." All in all, I think a ship to ship engagement is pretty close to call, with certain variables coming in to play. Relative distance for one. Photorps have an advantage, negligible falloff at range. I believe that the Feds can see with better resolution than the Empire, at least enough to know that closing to any near range would be a very bad idea,(wait better emphasize A VERY VERY BAD IDEA!) and there is no real way for an SSD to close the distance, they have to have establish coordinates to Hyperspace. In open space, not a problem, but to defend a planet... big problem. I discount the BSD because, primarily the Empire conquers planets, it doesn't like to vaporize them. They'll do it, but it seems to be a last resort. That still leaves the Empire with an advantage, the Fed really isn't set up to defend it's planets on the ground. And the Empire has, well, lets just say numerical superiority. (And as much as I like the ATAT walker, I'm pretty sure that a phaser rifle can disintergrate enough parts to disable one, maybe even destroy it.But the man on the ground is most important in taking an objective.) (Boy I sure can type a lot.) And this thing with shields, well, I have just on point to make before studying the numbers. I'm not sure what episode it was, but I know the Enterprise D altered it's shield geometery. To skip themselves off, oh hell I'll have to look it up. As for Fleet engagements, I think that the Empire would kick some serious... I mean inflict serious losses, conquering planets of the Federation until the Federation can figure out a way to negate that Hyperspace advantage. I mean, it can't be that hard, if all it takes is a gravity well. But that is, I believe, outside the posting rules. Just a yeah or nay will suffice. But one thing bothers me... how is the Empire going to know which planets are important, without going there. And more importantly, without knowing where everything is. And I do mean EVERYTHING, because they have to know to use Hyperspace. But it's really no fun to bring this up, because if you consider it's (to me) logical conclusion, ie- The Empire can't use hyperspace in our galaxy, not for any physical law, but for the simple fact that they don't know where EVERYTHING is. One wrong guessed at jump and they are toast. Leaving them stuck until they fugure out a solution. I wouldn't risk it. I suppose one could interpret the list rules as saying that this is just like saying that Hyperspace just doesn't work in our galaxy (which I am not) but still, how are they going to know what planets need to be taken? They will have to expend signifigant resources on just this problem. I leave it to the list for discussion. As for me, I have used up enough bandwidth for my first post, may the 'Net gods forgive my transgressions. ray_blake@hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graeme Dice Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 04:12:45 GMT Subject: Re: Wow, thanks for the response. Message-ID: <3B808E1C.9A67DD3C@sk.sympatico.ca> -------- Ray Blake wrote: > > This seems to be a good list. I've been on a few and it's like, if > your new, forget it, no one responds or if they do they're quite rude. > It's a nice change. > > One thing I must say is that I think that ST shields and sensors are > underestimated. And one thing that no one is mentioning is computer > power. ST has it in spades. They are primarily explorers. SW doesn't > appear to. And I don't think that SW has the ability to jam Subspace > sensors. But MOST, that is, I repeat, MOST SW sensors appear to be EM > based. Which could be jammed, maybe even zorched by ST ships. You've got this backwards. Targetting sensors on Federation ships are EM based. (Ref: Phage) > Zorch? you ask. What is 'zorch'. Well, if an Aegis cruiser were to > pump it's entire radar output, about 4 million watts, into the arc of > an attacking craft, it's radar would most definitely be gone, possibly > blowing out the enire electrical system. AWACS also are said to be > able to do this. I think the Feds could as well. But I could be wrong. The output of a warp core doesn't match the reactor of an ISD. > Also, The Feds can move and attack at beyond light speed, They can only attack from a ship at warp if the other ship is also at warp. No attack has ever been made from warp to realspace. > while SW > ships in hyperspace can't interact with the subluminal universe. Also, > the Feds employ a field drive as their sublight drive. Does a SSD do > the same? If so, why does it have great big engines at the back. For the same reason that the Enterprise has a great big engine at the back. The system still uses thrust to move themselves. > Granted, they could be exhaust ports for the reactor, but I am willing > to be corrected. I just don't think that an SSD is as maneuverable as > the Enterprise. > > Also, the Feds don't really use what I consider to be a great > potential weapon-warp speed rocks. Very cheap and effective. SW > hyperspace doesn't transmit inertia, etc when objects exit. But hey, > that's just one of my personal peeves, not really relevant here. > Though it could be, if the Fed were hard pressed. > As for Fleet engagements, I think that the Empire would kick some > serious... I mean inflict serious losses, conquering planets of the > Federation until the Federation can figure out a way to negate that > Hyperspace advantage. I mean, it can't be that hard, if all it takes > is a gravity well. But that is, I believe, outside the posting rules. > Just a yeah or nay will suffice. But one thing bothers me... how is > the Empire going to know which planets are important, without going > there. The Ferengi would be happy to trade for such information. The Romulans have no love for the Federation. > And more importantly, without knowing where everything is. And > I do mean EVERYTHING, because they have to know to use Hyperspace. But > it's really no fun to bring this up, because if you consider it's (to > me) logical conclusion, ie- The Empire can't use hyperspace in our > galaxy, not for any physical law, but for the simple fact that they > don't know where EVERYTHING is. It would only take them a month at the most for probe droids to map out most objects in the galaxy. -- The nineteenth century was a time of a great many thoughts and inventions. People stopped reproducing by hand and started reproducing by machine. The invention of the steamboat caused a network of rivers to spring up. Cyrus McCormick invented the McCormick raper, which did the work of a hundred men. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Hyde Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:55:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Wow, thanks for the response. Message-ID: <3B8124F8.FF537088@mtu.edu> -------- Graeme Dice wrote: > > Ray Blake wrote: > > > > This seems to be a good list. I've been on a few and it's like, if > > your new, forget it, no one responds or if they do they're quite rude. > > It's a nice change. > > > > > > One thing I must say is that I think that ST shields and sensors are > > underestimated. And one thing that no one is mentioning is computer > > power. ST has it in spades. They are primarily explorers. SW doesn't > > appear to. And I don't think that SW has the ability to jam Subspace > > sensors. But MOST, that is, I repeat, MOST SW sensors appear to be EM > > based. Which could be jammed, maybe even zorched by ST ships. > > You've got this backwards. Targetting sensors on Federation ships are > EM based. (Ref: Phage) > > > Zorch? you ask. What is 'zorch'. Well, if an Aegis cruiser were to > > pump it's entire radar output, about 4 million watts, into the arc of > > an attacking craft, it's radar would most definitely be gone, possibly > > blowing out the enire electrical system. AWACS also are said to be > > able to do this. I think the Feds could as well. But I could be wrong. > > The output of a warp core doesn't match the reactor of an ISD. > > > Also, The Feds can move and attack at beyond light speed, > > They can only attack from a ship at warp if the other ship is also at > warp. No attack has ever been made from warp to realspace. > > > while SW > > ships in hyperspace can't interact with the subluminal universe. Also, > > the Feds employ a field drive as their sublight drive. Does a SSD do > > the same? If so, why does it have great big engines at the back. > > For the same reason that the Enterprise has a great big engine at the > back. The system still uses thrust to move themselves. > > > Granted, they could be exhaust ports for the reactor, but I am willing > > to be corrected. I just don't think that an SSD is as maneuverable as > > the Enterprise. > > > > Also, the Feds don't really use what I consider to be a great > > potential weapon-warp speed rocks. Very cheap and effective. SW > > hyperspace doesn't transmit inertia, etc when objects exit. But hey, > > that's just one of my personal peeves, not really relevant here. > > Though it could be, if the Fed were hard pressed. > > > > > As for Fleet engagements, I think that the Empire would kick some > > serious... I mean inflict serious losses, conquering planets of the > > Federation until the Federation can figure out a way to negate that > > Hyperspace advantage. I mean, it can't be that hard, if all it takes > > is a gravity well. But that is, I believe, outside the posting rules. > > Just a yeah or nay will suffice. But one thing bothers me... how is > > the Empire going to know which planets are important, without going > > there. > > The Ferengi would be happy to trade for such information. The Romulans > have no love for the Federation. > They also don't need to know this--they can zap planets at will and I believe they would do so in a blanket op--they clearly have no reservations abt genocide. -- What I want is for every greasy, grimy tramp to arm himself with a knife or a gun, and stationing themselves outside the doorways of the rich, shoot or stab them as they come out. -Lucy Parsons Matt Hyde 906-487-3406 mdoughy@mtu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:18:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Wow, thanks for the response. Message-ID: <9m4glm$b8cv$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- Graeme Dice wrote in message <3B808E1C.9A67DD3C@sk.sympatico.ca>... Just hitting one of your major screw-ups . . . >They can only attack from a ship at warp if the other ship is also at >warp. No attack has ever been made from warp to realspace. > "Journey to Babel"[TOS] . . . the Orion vessel assaulted the sublight Enterprise while at high warp. "The Ultimate Computer"[TOS] . . . The sublight DY-100 type freighter S.S. Woden was destroyed by the Enterprise, which was moving at warp. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graeme Dice Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:51:50 GMT Subject: Re: Wow, thanks for the response. Message-ID: <3B85CF2F.F6B47EC7@sk.sympatico.ca> -------- Guardian 2000 wrote: > > Graeme Dice wrote in message <3B808E1C.9A67DD3C@sk.sympatico.ca>... > > Just hitting one of your major screw-ups . . . It's not a screw-up, it's the truth. > >They can only attack from a ship at warp if the other ship is also at > >warp. No attack has ever been made from warp to realspace. > > > > "Journey to Babel"[TOS] . . . the Orion vessel assaulted the sublight > Enterprise while at high warp. And were the visual effects of warp visible on the Orion ship. Did it move so fast that it was impossible to see when it went by them? > "The Ultimate Computer"[TOS] . . . The sublight DY-100 type freighter S.S. > Woden was destroyed by the Enterprise, which was moving at warp. Quote please. Graeme Dice -- People must not do things for fun. We are not here for fun. There is no reference to fun in any Act of Parliament. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Guardian 2000" Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 04:14:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Wow, thanks for the response. Message-ID: <9md2kb$1g4dm$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de> -------- Graeme Dice wrote in message <3B85CF2F.F6B47EC7@sk.sympatico.ca>... >Guardian 2000 wrote: >> >> Graeme Dice wrote in message <3B808E1C.9A67DD3C@sk.sympatico.ca>... >> >> Just hitting one of your major screw-ups . . . > >It's not a screw-up, it's the truth. > >> >They can only attack from a ship at warp if the other ship is also at >> >warp. No attack has ever been made from warp to realspace. >> > >> >> "Journey to Babel"[TOS] . . . the Orion vessel assaulted the sublight >> Enterprise while at high warp. > >And were the visual effects of warp visible on the Orion ship. Did it >move so fast that it was impossible to see when it went by them? No, but that happens often . . . have you not seen the Enterprise fly past at high warp but visible? In TOS, it was the same FX element used for the "whoosh" flyby in the credits. > >> "The Ultimate Computer"[TOS] . . . The sublight DY-100 type freighter S.S. >> Woden was destroyed by the Enterprise, which was moving at warp. > >Quote please. > >Graeme Dice >-- >People must not do things for fun. We are not here for fun. >There is no reference to fun in any Act of Parliament. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:49:20 GMT Subject: Re: Wow, thanks for the response. Message-ID: <4vxi7.24115$hT4.7110476@news1.rdc1.md.home.com> -------- "Guardian 2000" wrote in message news:9md2kb$1g4dm$1@ID-82121.news.dfncis.de... > > Graeme Dice wrote in message <3B85CF2F.F6B47EC7@sk.sympatico.ca>... > >Guardian 2000 wrote: > >> > >> Graeme Dice wrote in message <3B808E1C.9A67DD3C@sk.sympatico.ca>... > >> > >> Just hitting one of your major screw-ups . . . > > > >It's not a screw-up, it's the truth. > > > >> >They can only attack from a ship at warp if the other ship is also at > >> >warp. No attack has ever been made from warp to realspace. > >> > > >> > >> "Journey to Babel"[TOS] . . . the Orion vessel assaulted the sublight > >> Enterprise while at high warp. > > > >And were the visual effects of warp visible on the Orion ship. Did it > >move so fast that it was impossible to see when it went by them? > > No, but that happens often . . . have you not seen the Enterprise fly past > at high warp but visible? In TOS, it was the same FX element used for the > "whoosh" flyby in the credits. Does anyone need to remind you about how FX demons are not a point of consideration? -- cmdrwilkens AIM: cmdrwilkens "Shut the fuck up, scum." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wayne Poe Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:38:47 -0700 Subject: Re: Wow, thanks for the response. Message-ID: -------- On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Guardian 2000 wrote: > Graeme Dice wrote in message <3B808E1C.9A67DD3C@sk.sympatico.ca>... > > Just hitting one of your major screw-ups . . . > > >They can only attack from a ship at warp if the other ship is also at > >warp. No attack has ever been made from warp to realspace. > > > > "Journey to Babel"[TOS] . . . the Orion vessel assaulted the sublight > Enterprise while at high warp. Please quote for us any relevant dialogue which states that the Enterprise was at sublight. (Hint--there ain't none.) > "The Ultimate Computer"[TOS] . . . The sublight DY-100 type freighter S.S. > Woden was destroyed by the Enterprise, which was moving at warp. Prove the Enterprise was moving at warp when it fired at the DY-100. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----