---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:03:53 GMT Subject: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. Here's what we know: Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems in the Empire. The novel also says that the empire "represented only a tiny fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." Well, given a million systems in the Empire, the size -- assuming it's just a million _stars_, and in a galaxy like ours -- could be up to 1,000 light years (there are 250,000 stars within a 250 light-year radius of Earth, and 300 million stars within 5,000ly). To have a million _habitable systems_, a likely minimum would be 10-15,000 light years. On the other hand, if Tarkin referred to _populated_ systems, the figure is unknown, since we don't know the percentage of colonized habitable systems. That means we have to take a look at the other quote about a modest-sized galaxy for further information. In the Local Group of 40 galaxies, even excluding the dwarfs and any galaxies below 10,000 light-years across, the average size of the remaining 13 is 36,500 light years across. Even when you just count the larger galaxies within 20 million light years, that figure holds true. The only way you can get a bigger average figure is to count _only_ the 200 brightest (above magnitude 11.24) galaxies we can see within 100 million light years, but even then only about half are in the 100,000 light year or above category, and only six of those break 200,000 light years. And that's just the bright ones, which means all the little ones are automatically out of the count. Naturally, judging the Star Wars galaxy off of this is based on the notion that the universe's galaxies are fairly uniform, and that the galaxies weren't huge in the past, "a long, long time ago". But, as you can see, a "modest" size would presumably be near the average, or something in the neighborhood of 50,000 light years across, probably a bit less. A "tiny fraction" of a "section" of one that size couldn't be more than 5,000-10,000 light years in diameter, if we assume "section" to mean quadrant and "tiny fraction" to mean "something significantly less than half". For a fairly large example, take a circle and divide it into quadrants. Take a quadrant and divide it in half with a line from the center to the edge. Now, draw a line from the edge point you just drew to, and guide it to the nearest quadrant boundary point. The area within the right triangle is hardly "tiny", even if you were to use half the galaxy as a "section". But, as you can see, the area is equal to the area of a circle with a diameter of: 14,104.8 light years. I'd consider that a high-end canon estimate for the size of the Empire, assuming a high-side average of 50,000 light years for 'modest' galaxy size. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:57:41 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. [snip] > I'd consider that a high-end canon estimate for the size of the Empire, > assuming a high-side average of 50,000 light years for 'modest' galaxy size. > An interpretation of canon evidence cannot overrule known official facts. Only actual canon evidence can do that. -- Chuck "Why do you say such things when you know I will kill you for it?" -Zod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:03:18 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" wrote in message news:FQjY8.345$xf1.418738@typhoon.kc.rr.com... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. > [snip] > > I'd consider that a high-end canon estimate for the size of the Empire, > > assuming a high-side average of 50,000 light years for 'modest' galaxy > size. > > > An interpretation of canon evidence cannot overrule known official facts. > Only actual canon evidence can do that. And? You think he can understand what you say? Oh he'd just love to remove official facts like 1 million full member worlds and 50 million other colonies and protectorates. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:10:33 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" wrote in message news:FQjY8.345$xf1.418738@typhoon.kc.rr.com... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. > [snip] > > I'd consider that a high-end canon estimate for the size of the Empire, > > assuming a high-side average of 50,000 light years for 'modest' galaxy > size. > > > An interpretation of canon evidence cannot overrule known official facts. > Only actual canon evidence can do that. Actually, it was misquoted canon from Cmdrwilkens I was working with. Sorry for the confusion. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nitramtahalshia@aol.comAntiSpam (Sir Nitram) Date: 14 Jul 2002 19:05:21 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <20020714150521.03009.00000709@mb-cg.aol.com> -------- www.asvs.org Read the Canon section. Then, if you insist on touting your misconception of Lucasfilms policy as real, read the section on amending the R&R and try and get the rules here changed. -- SirNitram ASVS Small Gods Keeper and Amateur Genius Uptight Christians pray for God to save themselves. Upright Christians pray for God to save others in need. "And they say that a hero can save us, I'm not gonna stand here to wait..." -Hero ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dalton Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:11:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3D31CCF0.62672B9D@daltonator.net> -------- Sir Nitram wrote: > > > > www.asvs.org > > Read the Canon section. Then, if you insist on touting your misconception of > Lucasfilms policy as real, read the section on amending the R&R and try and get > the rules here changed. Don't bother reasoning with him. The concept of being "fair" is alien to him. What next? Is he going to argue that we should be restricted to the movies only and that all dialogue is inaccurate? Jesus. He has 600 hours of canon to work with. Give us a break... -- Rob "Roby" Dalton http://daltonator.net "It's tasteless, disgusting, and offensive. I love it." --Jeremy Piven, "PCU" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nitramtahalshia@aol.comAntiSpam (Sir Nitram) Date: 14 Jul 2002 19:41:00 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <20020714154100.03009.00000711@mb-cg.aol.com> -------- >Sir Nitram wrote: >> >> >> >> www.asvs.org >> >> Read the Canon section. Then, if you insist on touting your misconception >of >> Lucasfilms policy as real, read the section on amending the R&R and try and >get >> the rules here changed. > >Don't bother reasoning with him. The concept of being "fair" is alien to >him. What next? Is he going to argue that we should be restricted to the >movies only and that all dialogue is inaccurate? > >Jesus. > >He has 600 hours of canon to work with. Give us a break... > Suppose it's just time for the killfile. Oh well, no love lost here. -- SirNitram ASVS Small Gods Keeper and Amateur Genius Uptight Christians pray for God to save themselves. Upright Christians pray for God to save others in need. "And they say that a hero can save us, I'm not gonna stand here to wait..." -Hero ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:09:55 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Sir Nitram" wrote in message news:20020714150521.03009.00000709@mb-cg.aol.com... > > > www.asvs.org > > Read the Canon section. It is in error. Of course, I didn't expect you to realize this, so I acknowledged our differences by putting [strictly canon] in front of the topic. Clearly, you didn't figure this out. Dumbass. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nitramtahalshia@aol.comAntiSpam (Sir Nitram) Date: 15 Jul 2002 01:39:39 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <20020714213939.03009.00000808@mb-cg.aol.com> -------- >"Sir Nitram" wrote in message >news:20020714150521.03009.00000709@mb-cg.aol.com... >> >> >> www.asvs.org >> >> Read the Canon section. > >It is in error. Of course, I didn't expect you to realize this, so I >acknowledged our differences by putting [strictly canon] in front of the >topic. > >Clearly, you didn't figure this out. Dumbass. > Clearly, you didn't read the rest. You want the fallacy you think is 'Strictly Canon' to stand? You follow the procedure for changing the R&R, you useless little cocksucker. Why should we just listen to you, you pathetic asscrab, if you can't even obey simple, clearly written rules for such things? In short, fuck off. -- SirNitram ASVS Small Gods Keeper and Amateur Genius Uptight Christians pray for God to save themselves. Upright Christians pray for God to save others in need. "And they say that a hero can save us, I'm not gonna stand here to wait..." -Hero ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:08:54 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Sir Nitram" wrote in message news:20020714213939.03009.00000808@mb-cg.aol.com... > >"Sir Nitram" wrote in message > >news:20020714150521.03009.00000709@mb-cg.aol.com... > >> > >> > >> www.asvs.org > >> > >> Read the Canon section. > > > >It is in error. Of course, I didn't expect you to realize this, so I > >acknowledged our differences by putting [strictly canon] in front of the > >topic. > > > >Clearly, you didn't figure this out. Dumbass. > > > > Clearly, you didn't read the rest. You want the fallacy you think is 'Strictly > Canon' to stand? You follow the procedure for changing the R&R, you useless > little cocksucker. Why should we just listen to you, you pathetic asscrab, if > you can't even obey simple, clearly written rules for such things? In short, > fuck off. I am not bound by stupid rules that are brazenly in error. However, I have acknowledged the existence of the stupid rules, and made sure that any fucknugget could figure out what was going on. Even if I had never said a single damn thing about canon policy, simply putting "Strictly Canon" in the title would be a pretty fucking good clue about what I was talking about, except for your small brain. Fuck off, Tweezer-boy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nitramtahalshia@aol.comAntiSpam (Sir Nitram) Date: 15 Jul 2002 02:54:51 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <20020714225451.03009.00000818@mb-cg.aol.com> -------- >"Sir Nitram" wrote in message >news:20020714213939.03009.00000808@mb-cg.aol.com... >> >"Sir Nitram" wrote in message >> >news:20020714150521.03009.00000709@mb-cg.aol.com... >> >> >> >> >> >> www.asvs.org >> >> >> >> Read the Canon section. >> > >> >It is in error. Of course, I didn't expect you to realize this, so I >> >acknowledged our differences by putting [strictly canon] in front of the >> >topic. >> > >> >Clearly, you didn't figure this out. Dumbass. >> > >> >> Clearly, you didn't read the rest. You want the fallacy you think is >'Strictly >> Canon' to stand? You follow the procedure for changing the R&R, you >useless >> little cocksucker. Why should we just listen to you, you pathetic asscrab, >if >> you can't even obey simple, clearly written rules for such things? In >short, >> fuck off. > >I am not bound by stupid rules that are brazenly in error. However, I have >acknowledged the existence of the stupid rules, and made sure that any >fucknugget could figure out what was going on. > >Even if I had never said a single damn thing about canon policy, simply >putting "Strictly Canon" in the title would be a pretty fucking good clue >about what I was talking about, except for your small brain. > >Fuck off, Tweezer-boy. > Poor little Dark Star, too lazy, or too stupid, or just realizing, deep down, that he /is/ wrong and the change would never go through. Well, little boy, you play by the rules, or you don't play. Good night, child. *PLONK* -- SirNitram ASVS Small Gods Keeper and Amateur Genius Uptight Christians pray for God to save themselves. Upright Christians pray for God to save others in need. "And they say that a hero can save us, I'm not gonna stand here to wait..." -Hero ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:01:56 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <8HsY8.149501$Im2.7375792@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> -------- "Sir Nitram" wrote in message news:20020714225451.03009.00000818@mb-cg.aol.com... > Poor little Dark Star, too lazy, or too stupid, or just realizing, deep down, > that he /is/ wrong and the change would never go through. Well, little boy, you > play by the rules, or you don't play. Good night, child. Au contraire... I know I am right, but the change would never go through. I'll let you ponder the difference. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pablo_sanchez2000@hotmail.com (Pablo Sanchez) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:21:15 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3d334a55.362105770@news.cis.dfn.de> -------- On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:01:56 GMT, "DarkStar" wrote: > >"Sir Nitram" wrote in message >news:20020714225451.03009.00000818@mb-cg.aol.com... > >> Poor little Dark Star, too lazy, or too stupid, or just realizing, deep >down, >> that he /is/ wrong and the change would never go through. Well, little >boy, you >> play by the rules, or you don't play. Good night, child. > >Au contraire... I know I am right, but the change would never go through. >I'll let you ponder the difference. An analogy: DarkStar is a running back. When the quarterback attempts the handoff, DarkStar ignores him, running straight to the end zone. He claims the touchdown; when officials point out that he doesn't have the ball, he says that the rules are wrong and stupid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Celes Knight" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:27:04 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- > >Au contraire... I know I am right, but the change would never go through. > >I'll let you ponder the difference. > > An analogy: > DarkStar is a running back. When the quarterback attempts the > handoff, DarkStar ignores him, running straight to the end zone. He > claims the touchdown; when officials point out that he doesn't have > the ball, he says that the rules are wrong and stupid. *snicker* Good one. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:31:58 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message news:3d334a55.362105770@news.cis.dfn.de... > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:01:56 GMT, "DarkStar" > wrote: > > > > >"Sir Nitram" wrote in message > >news:20020714225451.03009.00000818@mb-cg.aol.com... > > > >> Poor little Dark Star, too lazy, or too stupid, or just realizing, deep > >down, > >> that he /is/ wrong and the change would never go through. Well, little > >boy, you > >> play by the rules, or you don't play. Good night, child. > > > >Au contraire... I know I am right, but the change would never go through. > >I'll let you ponder the difference. > > An analogy: > DarkStar is a running back. When the quarterback attempts the > handoff, DarkStar ignores him, running straight to the end zone. He > claims the touchdown; when officials point out that he doesn't have > the ball, he says that the rules are wrong and stupid. Oh, hardly. I could beat the ref to death with the ball in this game, and he would claim it wasn't there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Celes Knight" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:51:20 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- > >It is in error. Of course, I didn't expect you to realize this, so I > >acknowledged our differences by putting [strictly canon] in front of the > >topic. > > > >Clearly, you didn't figure this out. Dumbass. > > Clearly, you didn't read the rest. You want the fallacy you think is 'Strictly > Canon' to stand? You follow the procedure for changing the R&R, you useless > little cocksucker. Why should we just listen to you, you pathetic asscrab, if > you can't even obey simple, clearly written rules for such things? In short, > fuck off. Calm down people. We all know now that Darkstar's quote was wrong; however, if the quote was true, I don't see what would really be wrong with Darkstar's arguments. What's wrong with someone saying "For the purposes of *this thread*, let's assume XYZ."? (It's essentially an admission that the thread's concept is wrong and doesn't apply to anything else, but it could be fun to play... it might add more on-topic life to the group.) Having said that, you, Darkstar, should have made it more clear what you wanted. It's easy to skip or misinterpret something in the title. It would have been better to spell out *exactly* what you wanted, perhaps along with an admission that you know you're violating the rules, but want input on the thread anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pablo_sanchez2000@hotmail.com (Pablo Sanchez) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:21:55 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3d3366e5.4068685@news.cis.dfn.de> -------- On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:51:20 GMT, "Celes Knight" wrote: >> >It is in error. Of course, I didn't expect you to realize this, so I >> >acknowledged our differences by putting [strictly canon] in front of the >> >topic. >> > >> >Clearly, you didn't figure this out. Dumbass. >> >> Clearly, you didn't read the rest. You want the fallacy you think is >'Strictly >> Canon' to stand? You follow the procedure for changing the R&R, you >useless >> little cocksucker. Why should we just listen to you, you pathetic asscrab, >if >> you can't even obey simple, clearly written rules for such things? In >short, >> fuck off. > >Calm down people. We all know now that Darkstar's quote was wrong; however, >if the quote was true, I don't see what would really be wrong with >Darkstar's arguments. Maybe you're right, Celes. But that doesn't change that fact that Dorkstar deserves to be ridiculed at every pass. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:33:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. > > Here's what we know: > > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems in the > Empire. The novel also says that the empire "represented only a tiny > fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." The novel says no such thing. What it DOES say is that: "Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful destructive machine ever constructed had seemingly no influence at all upon that map, which itself only rpresented only a tiny fraciton of this seciton of one modest-sized galaxy." Now here are some steps to follow after seeing this: 1) Remove head from ass 2) Read the above statement 3) Realize he is tlaking about the fucking map not the Empire...the GALACTIC Empire (emphasis mine). 4) If you want to take quotes to the extreme then go re-read the Epilouge quote. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:07:24 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:agsn8m$neuiq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. > > > > Here's what we know: > > > > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems in > the > > Empire. The novel also says that the empire "represented only a tiny > > fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." > > > The novel says no such thing. What it DOES say is that: > > "Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful destructive machine ever > constructed had seemingly no influence at all upon that map, which itself > only rpresented only a tiny fraciton of this seciton of one modest-sized > galaxy." > > Now here are some steps to follow after seeing this: 1. Apologize. 2. Never believe anything you quote again as being close to accurate: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22tiny+fraction+of+this+section%22&hl=en& lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5vwW8.348823%24_j6.16591220%40bin3.nnrp.aus1.giga news.com&rnum=2 3. Tell you to fuck off. Sorry, guys. I took a quote from Cmdrwilkens and presumed it to be substantially accurate, and topical to what was being discussed. My bad - I was too trusting of the resident idiot. I assumed he could read. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pablo_sanchez2000@hotmail.com (Pablo Sanchez) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:36:11 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3d3233b3.290765308@news.cis.dfn.de> -------- On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:07:24 GMT, "DarkStar" wrote: > >"Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message >news:agsn8m$neuiq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... >> "DarkStar" wrote in message >> news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >> > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. >> > >> > Here's what we know: >> > >> > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems in >> the >> > Empire. The novel also says that the empire "represented only a tiny >> > fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." >> >> >> The novel says no such thing. What it DOES say is that: >> >> "Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful destructive machine >ever >> constructed had seemingly no influence at all upon that map, which itself >> only rpresented only a tiny fraciton of this seciton of one modest-sized >> galaxy." >> >> Now here are some steps to follow after seeing this: > > >1. Apologize. >2. Never believe anything you quote again as being close to accurate: >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22tiny+fraction+of+this+section%22&hl=en& >lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5vwW8.348823%24_j6.16591220%40bin3.nnrp.aus1.giga >news.com&rnum=2 >3. Tell you to fuck off. > > >Sorry, guys. I took a quote from Cmdrwilkens and presumed it to be >substantially accurate, and topical to what was being discussed. My bad - >I was too trusting of the resident idiot. I assumed he could read. Oh, so it's Greg's fault that you're a complete, utter, and total fucking retard, and that you assumed that his quote had all the context you needed to have for this bullshit thread. Jesus, Greg, what were you thinking? You should have quoted the entire fucking novel, so that Dickstar wouldn't misinterpret your post and make a total ass of himself. I mean, God forbid he should actually look at the fucking novel, rather than read your post and assume that the quote referred the Empire, instead of a map. Because we have to make special allowances for people with special needs, Dickstar being one such wonder boy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:54:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message news:3d3233b3.290765308@news.cis.dfn.de... > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:07:24 GMT, "DarkStar" > wrote: > > > > >"Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > >news:agsn8m$neuiq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > >> "DarkStar" wrote in message > >> news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > >> > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. > >> > > >> > Here's what we know: > >> > > >> > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems in > >> the > >> > Empire. The novel also says that the empire "represented only a tiny > >> > fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." > >> > >> > >> The novel says no such thing. What it DOES say is that: > >> > >> "Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful destructive machine > >ever > >> constructed had seemingly no influence at all upon that map, which itself > >> only rpresented only a tiny fraciton of this seciton of one modest-sized > >> galaxy." > >> > >> Now here are some steps to follow after seeing this: > > > > > >1. Apologize. > >2. Never believe anything you quote again as being close to accurate: > >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22tiny+fraction+of+this+section%22&hl=en & > >lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5vwW8.348823%24_j6.16591220%40bin3.nnrp.aus1.gig a > >news.com&rnum=2 > >3. Tell you to fuck off. > > > > > >Sorry, guys. I took a quote from Cmdrwilkens and presumed it to be > >substantially accurate, and topical to what was being discussed. My bad - > >I was too trusting of the resident idiot. I assumed he could read. > > Oh, so it's Greg's fault that you're a complete, utter, and total > fucking retard, and that you assumed that his quote had all the > context you needed to have for this bullshit thread. > > Jesus, Greg, what were you thinking? You should have quoted the > entire fucking novel, so that Dickstar wouldn't misinterpret your post > and make a total ass of himself. I mean, God forbid he should > actually look at the fucking novel, rather than read your post and > assume that the quote referred the Empire, instead of a map. Because > we have to make special allowances for people with special needs, > Dickstar being one such wonder boy. You know here I was assuming he would realize that without an antecedent the word "it" has no meaning when I should have known he would magically assume that "it" referred to the Galactic Empire. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:03:01 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <9IsY8.110620$Bt1.5834408@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> -------- "Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message news:3d3233b3.290765308@news.cis.dfn.de... > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:07:24 GMT, "DarkStar" > wrote: > > > > >"Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > >news:agsn8m$neuiq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > >> "DarkStar" wrote in message > >> news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > >> > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. > >> > > >> > Here's what we know: > >> > > >> > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems in > >> the > >> > Empire. The novel also says that the empire "represented only a tiny > >> > fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." > >> > >> > >> The novel says no such thing. What it DOES say is that: > >> > >> "Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful destructive machine > >ever > >> constructed had seemingly no influence at all upon that map, which itself > >> only rpresented only a tiny fraciton of this seciton of one modest-sized > >> galaxy." > >> > >> Now here are some steps to follow after seeing this: > > > > > >1. Apologize. > >2. Never believe anything you quote again as being close to accurate: > >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22tiny+fraction+of+this+section%22&hl=en & > >lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5vwW8.348823%24_j6.16591220%40bin3.nnrp.aus1.gig a > >news.com&rnum=2 > >3. Tell you to fuck off. > > > > > >Sorry, guys. I took a quote from Cmdrwilkens and presumed it to be > >substantially accurate, and topical to what was being discussed. My bad - > >I was too trusting of the resident idiot. I assumed he could read. > > Oh, so it's Greg's fault that you're a complete, utter, and total > fucking retard, and that you assumed that his quote had all the > context you needed to have for this bullshit thread. No, I was too trusting of the local retard. I said that, of course, knowing that his fellow retards would defend him. Good job, Pablo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:10:32 +0300 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <8ItY8.12$sX3.1260@read2.inet.fi> -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:9IsY8.110620$Bt1.5834408@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message > news:3d3233b3.290765308@news.cis.dfn.de... > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:07:24 GMT, "DarkStar" > > wrote: > > > > > > > >"Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > >news:agsn8m$neuiq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > >> "DarkStar" wrote in message > > >> news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > >> > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and > scope. > > >> > > > >> > Here's what we know: > > >> > > > >> > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems > in > > >> the > > >> > Empire. The novel also says that the empire "represented only a > tiny > > >> > fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." > > >> > > >> > > >> The novel says no such thing. What it DOES say is that: > > >> > > >> "Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful destructive machine > > >ever > > >> constructed had seemingly no influence at all upon that map, which > itself > > >> only rpresented only a tiny fraciton of this seciton of one > modest-sized > > >> galaxy." > > >> > > >> Now here are some steps to follow after seeing this: > > > > > > > > >1. Apologize. > > >2. Never believe anything you quote again as being close to accurate: > > > >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22tiny+fraction+of+this+section%22&hl=en > & > > > >lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5vwW8.348823%24_j6.16591220%40bin3.nnrp.aus1.gig > a > > >news.com&rnum=2 > > >3. Tell you to fuck off. > > > > > > > > >Sorry, guys. I took a quote from Cmdrwilkens and presumed it to be > > >substantially accurate, and topical to what was being discussed. My > bad - > > >I was too trusting of the resident idiot. I assumed he could read. > > > > Oh, so it's Greg's fault that you're a complete, utter, and total > > fucking retard, and that you assumed that his quote had all the > > context you needed to have for this bullshit thread. > > No, I was too trusting of the local retard. I said that, of course, > knowing that his fellow retards would defend him. Good job, Pablo. Strange, your the biggest retard we have no, yet noone comes to your support, heck not even at SB did hardly anyone bother with your magic pixie fairy dust crap. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pablo_sanchez2000@hotmail.com (Pablo Sanchez) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:01:40 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3d330cdd.346367242@news.cis.dfn.de> -------- On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:03:01 GMT, "DarkStar" wrote: > >"Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message >news:3d3233b3.290765308@news.cis.dfn.de... >> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:07:24 GMT, "DarkStar" >> wrote: >> >> > >> >"Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message >> >news:agsn8m$neuiq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... >> >> "DarkStar" wrote in message >> >> news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >> >> > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and >scope. >> >> > >> >> > Here's what we know: >> >> > >> >> > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems >in >> >> the >> >> > Empire. The novel also says that the empire "represented only a >tiny >> >> > fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." >> >> >> >> >> >> The novel says no such thing. What it DOES say is that: >> >> >> >> "Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful destructive machine >> >ever >> >> constructed had seemingly no influence at all upon that map, which >itself >> >> only rpresented only a tiny fraciton of this seciton of one >modest-sized >> >> galaxy." >> >> >> >> Now here are some steps to follow after seeing this: >> > >> > >> >1. Apologize. >> >2. Never believe anything you quote again as being close to accurate: >> >>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22tiny+fraction+of+this+section%22&hl=en >& >> >>lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5vwW8.348823%24_j6.16591220%40bin3.nnrp.aus1.gig >a >> >news.com&rnum=2 >> >3. Tell you to fuck off. >> > >> > >> >Sorry, guys. I took a quote from Cmdrwilkens and presumed it to be >> >substantially accurate, and topical to what was being discussed. My >bad - >> >I was too trusting of the resident idiot. I assumed he could read. >> >> Oh, so it's Greg's fault that you're a complete, utter, and total >> fucking retard, and that you assumed that his quote had all the >> context you needed to have for this bullshit thread. > >No, I was too trusting of the local retard. I said that, of course, >knowing that his fellow retards would defend him. Good job, Pablo. Jesus Christ, shut your fucking mouth. You're wrong, you're a fucking moron, and nobody here gives a shit about anything you say. When you heaved your fucking brainless gelatinous carcass into this newsgroup, you conclusively proved that evolution is wrong, because no parents stupid enough to spawn you would have been able to figure out sexual intercouse. You're a walking, (almost) talking justification for every atrocity in human history. Hitler, Mao, and Stalin could point to you and say "If you'd let us move a little further, you wouldn't have to deal with that fuckmonkey." And everyone would have to agree. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:19:56 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message news:3d330cdd.346367242@news.cis.dfn.de... > >No, I was too trusting of the local retard. I said that, of course, > >knowing that his fellow retards would defend him. Good job, Pablo. > > Jesus Christ, shut your fucking mouth. You're just angry 'cause you got caught. > You're a walking, (almost) talking justification for every atrocity in > human history. Hitler, Mao, and Stalin could point to you and say "If > you'd let us move a little further, you wouldn't have to deal with > that fuckmonkey." And everyone would have to agree. Why, because I smack around little bitches like you? Puh-leeze. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:55:42 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- I'd like to know one thing, why do you do these things even though you know that you are wrong deep down? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:09:11 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message news:OUEY8.337$sX3.12394@read2.inet.fi... > I'd like to know one thing, why do you do these things even though you know > that you are wrong deep down? Stupid question. Stupid answer: "It's my way of expressing my undying love for you. Did you get the last knawed-open chicken head I sent you?" With love, Darkstar ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:18:04 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <06GY8.382$sX3.13518@read2.inet.fi> -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:HZFY8.120150$iX5.5718026@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message > news:OUEY8.337$sX3.12394@read2.inet.fi... > > I'd like to know one thing, why do you do these things even though you > know > > that you are wrong deep down? > > Stupid question. Stupid answer: Not really because no one can really be so out of touch with basic and simple logic and evidence as to advocate such things. I think you really know how it is, you just don't want to admit it. I pity you on some level, to be so caught up in this... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:35:14 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message news:06GY8.382$sX3.13518@read2.inet.fi... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:HZFY8.120150$iX5.5718026@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message > > news:OUEY8.337$sX3.12394@read2.inet.fi... > > > I'd like to know one thing, why do you do these things even though you > > know > > > that you are wrong deep down? > > > > Stupid question. Stupid answer: > > Not really because no one can really be so out of touch with basic and > simple logic and evidence as to advocate such things. Why do you say that? You do it all the time. I never interrupt a man who is doing something by saying that what he's doing is impossible. > I pity you on some level, to be so caught up in this... Caught up? Do you honestly think you phase me in the slightest, little man? You don't even mark my boot when I step on you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:18:54 +0300 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:mNRY8.130938$iX5.6260936@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message > news:06GY8.382$sX3.13518@read2.inet.fi... > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:HZFY8.120150$iX5.5718026@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message > > > news:OUEY8.337$sX3.12394@read2.inet.fi... > > > > I'd like to know one thing, why do you do these things even though you > > > know > > > > that you are wrong deep down? > > > > > > Stupid question. Stupid answer: > > > > Not really because no one can really be so out of touch with basic and > > simple logic and evidence as to advocate such things. > > Why do you say that? You do it all the time. I never interrupt a man who > is doing something by saying that what he's doing is impossible. Your self delusions are strong indeed. > > I pity you on some level, to be so caught up in this... > > Caught up? Do you honestly think you phase me in the slightest, little > man? You don't even mark my boot when I step on you. Phase you? Why would I need to phase you? It's just sad how you willfully ignore all reason and logic. Hasn't it struck you yet that about 2(possibly just one) people on 3 forums out of many dozens, many trekkies, fivers and so on, all disagree with you? Doesn't it tell you something? Little? My physical frame is not little you know. Why don't you scuddle along now, oh and you look like an idiot in those high-heel leather boots, and for gods sake do put something else than just boots on too, clothes aren't that expensive. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:09:38 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message news:ZqSY8.116$sn5.4341@read2.inet.fi... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:mNRY8.130938$iX5.6260936@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message > > news:06GY8.382$sX3.13518@read2.inet.fi... > > > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > news:HZFY8.120150$iX5.5718026@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message > > > > news:OUEY8.337$sX3.12394@read2.inet.fi... > > > > > I'd like to know one thing, why do you do these things even though > you > > > > know > > > > > that you are wrong deep down? > > > > > > > > Stupid question. Stupid answer: > > > > > > Not really because no one can really be so out of touch with basic and > > > simple logic and evidence as to advocate such things. > > > > Why do you say that? You do it all the time. I never interrupt a man who > > is doing something by saying that what he's doing is impossible. > > Your self delusions are strong indeed. > > > > I pity you on some level, to be so caught up in this... > > > > Caught up? Do you honestly think you phase me in the slightest, little > > man? You don't even mark my boot when I step on you. > > Phase you? Why would I need to phase you? It's just sad how you willfully > ignore all reason and logic. I willfully ignore what _you think_ reason and logic _should be_. > Hasn't it struck you yet that about 2(possibly just one) people on 3 forums > out of many dozens, many trekkies, fivers and so on, all disagree with you? False > Doesn't it tell you something? No, it doesn't matter. Do you think I'm wasting my time trying to convince you closed-minded idiots of anything? And no, I'm not here just to get a rise out of you and your pals and make everyone foam at the mouth, either. I could do that much more easily just by leaving a shorn goat in plain sight of you, and waiting for the inevitable molestation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "His Divine Shadow" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:08:34 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <6yXY8.300$sn5.12668@read2.inet.fi> -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:SGWY8.175499$Im2.8556551@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message > news:ZqSY8.116$sn5.4341@read2.inet.fi... > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:mNRY8.130938$iX5.6260936@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message > > > news:06GY8.382$sX3.13518@read2.inet.fi... > > > > > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > news:HZFY8.120150$iX5.5718026@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message > > > > > news:OUEY8.337$sX3.12394@read2.inet.fi... > > > > > > I'd like to know one thing, why do you do these things even though > > you > > > > > know > > > > > > that you are wrong deep down? > > > > > > > > > > Stupid question. Stupid answer: > > > > > > > > Not really because no one can really be so out of touch with basic and > > > > simple logic and evidence as to advocate such things. > > > > > > Why do you say that? You do it all the time. I never interrupt a man > who > > > is doing something by saying that what he's doing is impossible. > > > > Your self delusions are strong indeed. > > > > > > I pity you on some level, to be so caught up in this... > > > > > > Caught up? Do you honestly think you phase me in the slightest, little > > > man? You don't even mark my boot when I step on you. > > > > Phase you? Why would I need to phase you? It's just sad how you willfully > > ignore all reason and logic. > > I willfully ignore what _you think_ reason and logic _should be_. > > > Hasn't it struck you yet that about 2(possibly just one) people on 3 > forums > > out of many dozens, many trekkies, fivers and so on, all disagree with > you? > > False Suure, you keep on telling yourself that. *snicker* > > Doesn't it tell you something? > > No, it doesn't matter. Do you think I'm wasting my time trying to convince > you closed-minded idiots of anything? Yeah right, now everyone, even trekkies and fivers and weberites and so on who just happens to subscribe to the scientifc method who doesn't agree with your magic & fairie pixie dust theory are morons... > And no, I'm not here just to get a rise out of you and your pals and make > everyone foam at the mouth, either. No, your here because you thought you were smart enough to create theories, but your creationist like tactics only made you the mockery of three forums. > I could do that much more easily just > by leaving a shorn goat in plain sight of you, and waiting for the > inevitable molestation. By misstaking us all for The Baron you have only showed how limited your feeble mind is. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:33:26 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "His Divine Shadow" wrote in message news:6yXY8.300$sn5.12668@read2.inet.fi... > > Yeah right, now everyone, even trekkies and fivers and weberites and so on > who just happens to subscribe to the scientifc method who doesn't agree with > your magic & fairie pixie dust theory are morons... I'm the only one that has used the scientific method. Assuming DET and then ignoring what doesn't work within that idea is not scientific. > > And no, I'm not here just to get a rise out of you and your pals and make > > everyone foam at the mouth, either. > > No, your here because you thought you were smart enough to create theories, > but your creationist like tactics only made you the mockery of three forums. If you're going to be Wong's intellectual puppet, at least quote him properly. Wong's "you're a creationist" attack was the saddest thing to come out of his mouth. DET theories are creationism, because they make an assumption, and ignore the new evidence that overrides it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pablo_sanchez2000@hotmail.com (Pablo Sanchez) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:18:19 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3d3349df.361987454@news.cis.dfn.de> -------- On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:19:56 GMT, "DarkStar" wrote: > >"Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message >news:3d330cdd.346367242@news.cis.dfn.de... >> >No, I was too trusting of the local retard. I said that, of course, >> >knowing that his fellow retards would defend him. Good job, Pablo. >> >> Jesus Christ, shut your fucking mouth. > >You're just angry 'cause you got caught. I'm just angry because Free Agent doesn't come with a kill-file. >> You're a walking, (almost) talking justification for every atrocity in >> human history. Hitler, Mao, and Stalin could point to you and say "If >> you'd let us move a little further, you wouldn't have to deal with >> that fuckmonkey." And everyone would have to agree. > >Why, because I smack around little bitches like you? Puh-leeze. No, because you're a little shit with delusions of grandeur and barely enough intelligence to slap a keyboard with your fat, greasy fingers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "C.S.Strowbridge" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:34:52 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3D336A7E.1040700@shaw.ca> -------- Pablo Sanchez wrote: > No, because you're a little shit with delusions of grandeur and barely > enough intelligence to slap a keyboard with your fat, greasy fingers. Hey! If you use 'fat, greasy fingers' as an insult you'll be pissing off a lot of Lumpers. C.S.Strowbridge ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:36:55 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message news:3d3349df.361987454@news.cis.dfn.de... > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:19:56 GMT, "DarkStar" > wrote: > > > > >"Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message > >news:3d330cdd.346367242@news.cis.dfn.de... > >> >No, I was too trusting of the local retard. I said that, of course, > >> >knowing that his fellow retards would defend him. Good job, Pablo. > >> > >> Jesus Christ, shut your fucking mouth. > > > >You're just angry 'cause you got caught. > > I'm just angry because Free Agent doesn't come with a kill-file. > > >> You're a walking, (almost) talking justification for every atrocity in > >> human history. Hitler, Mao, and Stalin could point to you and say "If > >> you'd let us move a little further, you wouldn't have to deal with > >> that fuckmonkey." And everyone would have to agree. > > > >Why, because I smack around little bitches like you? Puh-leeze. > > No, because you're a little shit with delusions of grandeur Trust me, when you're the one claiming that _anyone_ justifies Hitler and Stalin, the lowest piece of frogshit in a Lousiana scum swamp has grandeur by comparison. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pablo_sanchez2000@hotmail.com (Pablo Sanchez) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:23:43 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3d345694.430787244@news.cis.dfn.de> -------- On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:36:55 GMT, "DarkStar" wrote: > >"Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message >news:3d3349df.361987454@news.cis.dfn.de... >> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:19:56 GMT, "DarkStar" >> wrote: >> >> > >> >"Pablo Sanchez" wrote in message >> >news:3d330cdd.346367242@news.cis.dfn.de... >> >> >No, I was too trusting of the local retard. I said that, of course, >> >> >knowing that his fellow retards would defend him. Good job, Pablo. >> >> >> >> Jesus Christ, shut your fucking mouth. >> > >> >You're just angry 'cause you got caught. >> >> I'm just angry because Free Agent doesn't come with a kill-file. >> >> >> You're a walking, (almost) talking justification for every atrocity in >> >> human history. Hitler, Mao, and Stalin could point to you and say "If >> >> you'd let us move a little further, you wouldn't have to deal with >> >> that fuckmonkey." And everyone would have to agree. >> > >> >Why, because I smack around little bitches like you? Puh-leeze. >> >> No, because you're a little shit with delusions of grandeur > >Trust me, when you're the one claiming that _anyone_ justifies Hitler and >Stalin, the lowest piece of frogshit in a Lousiana scum swamp has grandeur >by comparison. Obviously you've never met yourself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: setesh@aol.com (Setesh) Date: 15 Jul 2002 16:00:32 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <20020715120032.02154.00000277@mb-fs.aol.com> -------- >Jesus, Greg, what were you thinking? You should have quoted the >entire fucking novel, so that Dickstar wouldn't misinterpret your post >and make a total ass of himself. I mean, God forbid he should >actually look at the fucking novel, rather than read your post and >assume that the quote referred the Empire, instead of a map. Because >we have to make special allowances for people with special needs, >Dickstar being one such wonder boy. If you think this is bad read the 'haveing a thought' thread, some of his responses require massive word twisting of MY posts to make sense " Azrael arose saying, 'and lo, I have become Death, the destroyer of worlds." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:53:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:gfpY8.108275$Bt1.5651655@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:agsn8m$neuiq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. > > > > > > Here's what we know: > > > > > > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems in > > the > > > Empire. The novel also says that the empire "represented only a tiny > > > fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." > > > > > > The novel says no such thing. What it DOES say is that: > > > > "Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful destructive machine > ever > > constructed had seemingly no influence at all upon that map, which itself > > only rpresented only a tiny fraciton of this seciton of one modest-sized > > galaxy." > > > > Now here are some steps to follow after seeing this: > > > 1. Apologize. > 2. Never believe anything you quote again as being close to accurate: > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22tiny+fraction+of+this+section%22&hl=en& > lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5vwW8.348823%24_j6.16591220%40bin3.nnrp.aus1.giga > news.com&rnum=2 Do you even read my fucking quotes? Do you understand what "...words wrods words" means? The three periods preceding the quoted piece of text means that it is not the entire sentence. You can read that and understand the important part of the message (in the context of our debate at the time) was that the galaxy was not a tiny one but rather of at elast modest size. I can't help it if you're a retard who needs me to spell out entire paragraphs just so you don't go off taking things completely out of context. Now for a brief grammer lesson: "it" is a pronoun, it needs an antecedent. The antecedent in this case was the word "map" however as you did not have the anteceedent you could only guess what it was...in other words since I gave you nothing so you pulled shit out of your ass, go wash your hands off. > 3. Tell you to fuck off. > > > Sorry, guys. I took a quote from Cmdrwilkens and presumed it to be > substantially accurate, and topical to what was being discussed. My bad - > I was too trusting of the resident idiot. I assumed he could read. > I find it funy that your lack of grammer extends to the depths that you cannot contemplate pronoun-antecedent agreement. Its something they start teaching in elementary school for God's (singular and non-denominational) sake. Are we to believe that you are so unbelievably retarded that you saw the entire Empire being implied as possesing only a tiny fraciton of the galaxy? I know that is what you posted but for the record did I even follow up? I can't even remember reading that and frankly my brain might have shut down seeing something that stupid being posted. To go from no antecedent to assuming that "it" refers to the entire Empire is a leap so far beyond amazing that I think you ought to go replace Mr. Kneevil on the professional stuntman curcuit. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:05:05 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <5KsY8.110628$Bt1.5836142@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:agth0u$nsdeq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > Do you even read my fucking quotes? Do you understand what "...words wrods > words" means? AAAAAAAHHHH GODDAMMIT STOP! NO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT "WRODS" "MEANS"!!! AAAAHHHHH IT HURTS!!!!!!!!!!! And then you try to give me a grammar lesson. That's gotta be the funniest thing I've ever heard of. You really need to improve your thinking skills, grammar, and spelling. If you don't, you are about three posts away from my killfile, you ignorant shit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:58:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:5KsY8.110628$Bt1.5836142@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:agth0u$nsdeq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > Do you even read my fucking quotes? Do you understand what "...words wrods > > words" means? > > AAAAAAAHHHH GODDAMMIT STOP! NO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT "WRODS" "MEANS"!!! > AAAAHHHHH IT HURTS!!!!!!!!!!! > > And then you try to give me a grammar lesson. That's gotta be the funniest > thing I've ever heard of. > > You really need to improve your thinking skills, grammar, and spelling. If > you don't, you are about three posts away from my killfile, you ignorant > shit. Main Entry: 1spell Pronunciation: 'spel Function: verb Inflected Form(s): spelled /'speld, 'spelt/; spell·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French espeller, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English spell talk Date: 14th century intransitive senses : to form words with letters ; also : to spell words in a certain way Main Entry: gram·mar Pronunciation: 'gra-m&r Function: noun Etymology: Middle English gramere, from Middle French gramaire, modification of Latin grammatica, from Greek grammatikE, from feminine of grammatikos of letters, from grammat-, gramma -- more at GRAM Date: 14th century 1 a : the study of the classes of words, their inflections, and their functions and relations in the sentence b : a study of what is to be preferred and what avoided in inflection and syntax 2 a : the characteristic system of inflections and syntax of a language b : a system of rules that defines the grammatical structure of a language 3 a : a grammar textbook b : speech or writing evaluated according to its conformity to grammatical rules 4 : the principles or rules of an art, science, or technique Now please note how spelling and grammar are TWO FUCKING DIFFERENT THINGS. Having said that and taking the time to address you complete ad hominem I return you to the original point: Do you even read my fucking quotes? Do you understand what "...words words words" means? The three periods preceding the quoted piece of text means that it is not the entire sentence. You can read that and understand the important part of the message (in the context of our debate at the time) was that the galaxy was not a tiny one but rather of at elast modest size. I can't help it if you're a retard who needs me to spell out entire paragraphs just so you don't go off taking things completely out of context. Now for a brief grammer lesson: "it" is a pronoun, it needs an antecedent. The antecedent in this case was the word "map" however as you did not have the anteceedent you could only guess what it was...in other words since I gave you nothing so you pulled shit out of your ass, go wash your hands off. > 3. Tell you to fuck off. > > > Sorry, guys. I took a quote from Cmdrwilkens and presumed it to be > substantially accurate, and topical to what was being discussed. My bad - > I was too trusting of the resident idiot. I assumed he could read. > I find it funy that your lack of grammer extends to the depths that you cannot contemplate pronoun-antecedent agreement. Its something they start teaching in elementary school for God's (singular and non-denominational) sake. Are we to believe that you are so unbelievably retarded that you saw the entire Empire being implied as possesing only a tiny fraciton of the galaxy? I know that is what you posted but for the record did I even follow up? I can't even remember reading that and frankly my brain might have shut down seeing something that stupid being posted. To go from no antecedent to assuming that "it" refers to the entire Empire is a leap so far beyond amazing that I think you ought to go replace Mr. Kneevil on the professional stuntman curcuit. Now are you gonna respond to my post or do you want to continue to ignroe the fact that you assumed the antecedent of a pronoun WITHOUT EVIDENCE and thuis shoved your foot up your own ass. There's the old quote about what happens when you assume but in this case you are just making an ass of yourself. Only a retard of your proportions would assume that the map in question was that of the entire Galactic Empire withou at least fact checking to see if your asusmption was correct. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:40:50 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ah0g79$pcp1s$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:5KsY8.110628$Bt1.5836142@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:agth0u$nsdeq$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > Do you even read my fucking quotes? Do you understand what "...words > wrods > > > words" means? > > > > AAAAAAAHHHH GODDAMMIT STOP! NO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT "WRODS" "MEANS"!!! > > AAAAHHHHH IT HURTS!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > And then you try to give me a grammar lesson. That's gotta be the > funniest > > thing I've ever heard of. > > > > You really need to improve your thinking skills, grammar, and spelling. > If > > you don't, you are about three posts away from my killfile, you ignorant > > shit. > > > Main Entry: 1spell > Pronunciation: 'spel > Function: verb > Inflected Form(s): spelled /'speld, 'spelt/; spell·ing > Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French espeller, of Germanic origin; > akin to Old English spell talk > Date: 14th century > intransitive senses : to form words with letters ; > also : to spell words in a certain way > > Main Entry: gram·mar > Pronunciation: 'gra-m&r > Function: noun > Etymology: Middle English gramere, from Middle French gramaire, modification > of Latin grammatica, from Greek grammatikE, from feminine of grammatikos of > letters, from grammat-, gramma -- more at GRAM > Date: 14th century > 1 a : the study of the classes of words, their inflections, and their > functions and relations in the sentence b : a study of what is to be > preferred and what avoided in inflection and syntax > 2 a : the characteristic system of inflections and syntax of a language b : > a system of rules that defines the grammatical structure of a language > 3 a : a grammar textbook b : speech or writing evaluated according to its > conformity to grammatical rules > 4 : the principles or rules of an art, science, or technique the theater> > > > Now please note how spelling and grammar are TWO FUCKING DIFFERENT THINGS. > Having said that and taking the time to address you complete ad hominem I > return you to the original point: Let me guess: the paragraph above is your proof that you don't need help with grammar. > Now for a brief grammer lesson: Good, because I've never heard of grammer. I'm always interested in new knowledge. > "it" is a pronoun, it needs an antecedent. The antecedent in this case was > the word "map" however as you did not have the anteceedent you could only > guess what it was...in other words since I gave you nothing so you pulled > shit out of your ass, go wash your hands off. In the context of the discussion, "it" could only have referred to the Empire, since the galaxy itself was in the sentence. Bite it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Celes Knight" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:52:40 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- > > " is a pronoun, it needs an antecedent. The antecedent in this case was > > the word "map" however as you did not have the anteceedent you could > > only guess what it was...in other words since I gave you nothing so > > you pulledshit out of your ass, go wash your hands off. > > In the context of the discussion, "it" could only have referred to the > Empire, since the galaxy itself was in the sentence. Is this the message that you're refering to: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22tiny+fraction+of+this+section%22&hl=en& lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=5vwW8.348823%24_j6.16591220%40bin3.nnrp.aus1.giga news.com&rnum=2 ? If so, let's take a look at the context: ******* Someone said: In AOTC, an Outer Rim world was shown on the map in the archives to be well inside the galaxy, near the core. The rest is assumption based on the idea they are talking about something the size of the Milky Way. Someone replied: Galactic formation requires a galaxy of such size in number of stars to be of certain sizes. additionally it is a spiral galaxy and assuming it to be similair to our own would be completely reasonable supposition without EU material (which amkes the SW galaxy larger than ours). Someone else (you?) replied: Most of the dozens of galaxies in our Local Group are less than 10,000 light years in size. Canonically, all it must contain is a million stars or so (ANH novel). Or, actually, all it must contain is a million habitable systems. Cmdrwilkens said (in responce): Just for fun, ANH Novelisation\ (as stated above, same page in fact) "...which in itself represented only a tiny fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy." You said (in response to Cmdrwilkens): So the Empire is a tiny fraction of a modest galaxy? ******* You can hardly claim that "it" must refer to the Empire because of the "context of the discussion". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:35:28 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Celes Knight" wrote in message news:Ys1Z8.233015$vq.12480037@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > You can hardly claim that "it" must refer to the Empire because of the > "context of the discussion". Yes, I can, and when I asked the question directly, no one claimed anything different. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:37:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:QgfZ8.242218$vq.13066220@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Celes Knight" wrote in > message news:Ys1Z8.233015$vq.12480037@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > You can hardly claim that "it" must refer to the Empire because of the > > "context of the discussion". > > Yes, I can, and when I asked the question directly, no one claimed anything > different. > No one claimed anything which means you assumed you were correct without evidence. Again this is your fault not mine. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:04:18 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ah4a14$q2i52$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:QgfZ8.242218$vq.13066220@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Celes Knight" wrote in > > message news:Ys1Z8.233015$vq.12480037@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > You can hardly claim that "it" must refer to the Empire because of the > > > "context of the discussion". > > > > Yes, I can, and when I asked the question directly, no one claimed > anything > > different. > > > > No one claimed anything which means you assumed you were correct without > evidence. Again this is your fault not mine. I read your quote, including the unnecessary parts you put in because you "felt like it", and was misled, because context of the quote's use caused that. Had you not "felt like it", I would not have been misled. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:01:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:CRlZ8.193091$Im2.9722999@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:ah4a14$q2i52$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:QgfZ8.242218$vq.13066220@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > "Celes Knight" wrote in > > > message news:Ys1Z8.233015$vq.12480037@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > You can hardly claim that "it" must refer to the Empire because of the > > > > "context of the discussion". > > > > > > Yes, I can, and when I asked the question directly, no one claimed > > anything > > > different. > > > > > > > No one claimed anything which means you assumed you were correct without > > evidence. Again this is your fault not mine. > > I read your quote, including the unnecessary parts you put in because you > "felt like it", and was misled, because context of the quote's use caused > that. Had you not "felt like it", I would not have been misled. > You were misled because you are an idiot. Only an idiot would assume that "itself" referred to the Empire as a whole. Only an idiot sees an item entirely without context and gives it a context then blame other people when the context is wrong. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:14:33 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ah5lpg$q6rne$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:CRlZ8.193091$Im2.9722999@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:ah4a14$q2i52$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > news:QgfZ8.242218$vq.13066220@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > "Celes Knight" wrote in > > > > message news:Ys1Z8.233015$vq.12480037@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > You can hardly claim that "it" must refer to the Empire because of > the > > > > > "context of the discussion". > > > > > > > > Yes, I can, and when I asked the question directly, no one claimed > > > anything > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > No one claimed anything which means you assumed you were correct without > > > evidence. Again this is your fault not mine. > > > > I read your quote, including the unnecessary parts you put in because you > > "felt like it", and was misled, because context of the quote's use caused > > that. Had you not "felt like it", I would not have been misled. > > > > You were misled because you are an idiot. Only an idiot would assume that > "itself" referred to the Empire as a whole. Only an idiot sees an item > entirely without context and gives it a context then blame other people when > the context is wrong. Had you not felt like misquoting, it wouldn't have happened. Had you answered a direct question that I asked for confirmation, it wouldn't have happened. Your fault, fuck off. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:42:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:JNuZ8.141306$iB1.8095689@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:ah5lpg$q6rne$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:CRlZ8.193091$Im2.9722999@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > news:ah4a14$q2i52$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > news:QgfZ8.242218$vq.13066220@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > You were misled because you are an idiot. Only an idiot would assume that > > "itself" referred to the Empire as a whole. Only an idiot sees an item > > entirely without context and gives it a context then blame other people > when > > the context is wrong. > > Had you not felt like misquoting, it wouldn't have happened. Had you > answered a direct question that I asked for confirmation, it wouldn't have > happened. > > Your fault, fuck off. Oh so because I chose not to respond, when I am under no obligation to, I am at fault? Because I provided a quote which began where I felt was appropriate I am responsible for your misapprehensions? Misquoting involves deception, deliberate or unintentionaly altering the meaning of a quote by changing words or placing an item out of context. I gave no fucking context, you can't misquote (provide improper context) without giving a goddamn context in the first place. I am not repsonsible for your assumptions. Lets be veryt clear. You made an ASSUMPTION. I am not responsible for your assumptions. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:32:01 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ah7gbd$qv7im$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:JNuZ8.141306$iB1.8095689@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:ah5lpg$q6rne$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > news:CRlZ8.193091$Im2.9722999@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > news:ah4a14$q2i52$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > > news:QgfZ8.242218$vq.13066220@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were misled because you are an idiot. Only an idiot would assume > that > > > "itself" referred to the Empire as a whole. Only an idiot sees an item > > > entirely without context and gives it a context then blame other people > > when > > > the context is wrong. > > > > Had you not felt like misquoting, it wouldn't have happened. Had you > > answered a direct question that I asked for confirmation, it wouldn't have > > happened. > > > > Your fault, fuck off. > Misquoting involves deception, deliberate or unintentionaly altering the > meaning of a quote by changing words or placing an item out of context. Thank you. Now, can we actually get some debating done, or are you going to keep bitching? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:22:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:RMSZ8.171227$iX5.8784557@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:ah7gbd$qv7im$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:JNuZ8.141306$iB1.8095689@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > news:ah5lpg$q6rne$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > news:CRlZ8.193091$Im2.9722999@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > > news:ah4a14$q2i52$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > > > news:QgfZ8.242218$vq.13066220@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were misled because you are an idiot. Only an idiot would assume > > that > > > > "itself" referred to the Empire as a whole. Only an idiot sees an item > > > > entirely without context and gives it a context then blame other > people > > > when > > > > the context is wrong. > > > > > > Had you not felt like misquoting, it wouldn't have happened. Had you > > > answered a direct question that I asked for confirmation, it wouldn't > have > > > happened. > > > > > > Your fault, fuck off. > > > Misquoting involves deception, deliberate or unintentionaly altering the > > meaning of a quote by changing words or placing an item out of context. > > Thank you. > > Now, can we actually get some debating done, or are you going to keep > bitching? > You can't palce an item out of context if you don't give it any context at all. YOU supplied the only context for your theory and it was wrong. I am not responsible for you being unable to realize that there was no context. For that matter I can now accuse you, under your theory, of deception as you failed to quote my article, so lets try it again: ---- news:ah7gbd$qv7im$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de Oh so because I chose not to respond, when I am under no obligation to, I am at fault? Because I provided a quote which began where I felt was appropriate I am responsible for your misapprehensions? Misquoting involves deception, deliberate or unintentionaly altering the meaning of a quote by changing words or placing an item out of context. I gave no fucking context, you can't misquote (provide improper context) without giving a goddamn context in the first place. I am not repsonsible for your assumptions. Lets be veryt clear. You made an ASSUMPTION. I am not responsible for your assumptions. ---- In the future either make notations that you are snipping bits and pieces of my posts around a point you want to address or STFU about misquoting. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) "I'm a genocidal maniac, hold me." -Anakin Vader ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:53:29 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ah9eer$ris65$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:RMSZ8.171227$iX5.8784557@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:ah7gbd$qv7im$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > news:JNuZ8.141306$iB1.8095689@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > news:ah5lpg$q6rne$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > > news:CRlZ8.193091$Im2.9722999@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > > > news:ah4a14$q2i52$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > > > > news:QgfZ8.242218$vq.13066220@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were misled because you are an idiot. Only an idiot would assume > > > that > > > > > "itself" referred to the Empire as a whole. Only an idiot sees an > item > > > > > entirely without context and gives it a context then blame other > > people > > > > when > > > > > the context is wrong. > > > > > > > > Had you not felt like misquoting, it wouldn't have happened. Had you > > > > answered a direct question that I asked for confirmation, it wouldn't > > have > > > > happened. > > > > > > > > Your fault, fuck off. > > > > > Misquoting involves deception, deliberate or unintentionaly altering the > > > meaning of a quote by changing words or placing an item out of context. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Now, can we actually get some debating done, or are you going to keep > > bitching? > > > > You can't ... Ah, I see you're going to keep bitching. Well, carry on, I'll be in other threads. Have fun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:04:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:ZNA_8.204193$iX5.10700306@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:ah9eer$ris65$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:RMSZ8.171227$iX5.8784557@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > news:ah7gbd$qv7im$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > news:JNuZ8.141306$iB1.8095689@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > > news:ah5lpg$q6rne$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > > > news:CRlZ8.193091$Im2.9722999@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > > > > news:ah4a14$q2i52$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:QgfZ8.242218$vq.13066220@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were misled because you are an idiot. Only an idiot would > assume > > > > that > > > > > > "itself" referred to the Empire as a whole. Only an idiot sees an > > item > > > > > > entirely without context and gives it a context then blame other > > > people > > > > > when > > > > > > the context is wrong. > > > > > > > > > > Had you not felt like misquoting, it wouldn't have happened. Had > you > > > > > answered a direct question that I asked for confirmation, it > wouldn't > > > have > > > > > happened. > > > > > > > > > > Your fault, fuck off. > > > > > > > Misquoting involves deception, deliberate or unintentionaly altering > the > > > > meaning of a quote by changing words or placing an item out of > context. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Now, can we actually get some debating done, or are you going to keep > > > bitching? > > > > > > > You can't ... > > Ah, I see you're going to keep bitching. Well, carry on, I'll be in other > threads. Have fun. > I'd be happy if you left all toether or acknowledged that the fault is on your part for taking an item with no context and giving it context then blaming me when it was the wrong context. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) "I'm a genocidal maniac, hold me." -Anakin Vader ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:30:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:CSRY8.130677$Bt1.6817205@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:ah0g79$pcp1s$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > "it" is a pronoun, it needs an antecedent. The antecedent in this case was > > the word "map" however as you did not have the anteceedent you could only > > guess what it was...in other words since I gave you nothing so you pulled > > shit out of your ass, go wash your hands off. > > In the context of the discussion, "it" could only have referred to the > Empire, since the galaxy itself was in the sentence. > > Bite it. > However you NEVER considered that a MAP could be the object could you? What reason did you have to believe the Empire was the antecedent? That's right absolutely none. The antecedent could have been "giant inflatable rubber duckey" for all you knew. While that obviously would not make all that much sense it does fit grammatically and you have no evidence otherwise. Now given a situation where I have a lack of data what would I do? Why I would crack open a book and fucking read. You had two choices when you saw my sentece: 1) Assume that "itself" referred to the Empire without any proof. 2) Read the novelisation itself as I provided page reference and all. Now ask yourself which of the two options is the responsible academic thing to do? Once you've done that ask yourself which option would then require that you accept to others that you made an ASSUMPTION not justified by the facts? Now ask yourself what you would do if someone blamed you for their asusmption? -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: setesh@aol.com (Setesh) Date: 17 Jul 2002 05:03:01 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <20020717010301.03414.00000397@mb-fq.aol.com> -------- >However you NEVER considered that a MAP could be the object could you? What >reason did you have to believe the Empire was the antecedent? That's right >absolutely none. The antecedent could have been "giant inflatable rubber >duckey" for all you knew. While that obviously would not make all that much >sense it does fit grammatically and you have no evidence otherwise. Now >given a situation where I have a lack of data what would I do? Why I would >crack open a book and fucking read. You had two choices when you saw my >sentece: > >1) Assume that "itself" referred to the Empire without any proof. >2) Read the novelisation itself as I provided page reference and all. > >Now ask yourself which of the two options is the responsible academic thing >to do? Once you've done that ask yourself which option would then require >that you accept to others that you made an ASSUMPTION not justified by the >facts? Now ask yourself what you would do if someone blamed you for their >asusmption? > and if Darktwit doesn't have a copy their selling them again at most local retailers, bound into a single book Skywarp:"Starscream, What's Megatron's plan this time? Starscream:"Who cares? You just Know it's going to be evil. And evil is always fun." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 02:02:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Setesh" wrote in message news:20020717010301.03414.00000397@mb-fq.aol.com... > >However you NEVER considered that a MAP could be the object could you? What > >reason did you have to believe the Empire was the antecedent? That's right > >absolutely none. The antecedent could have been "giant inflatable rubber > >duckey" for all you knew. While that obviously would not make all that much > >sense it does fit grammatically and you have no evidence otherwise. Now > >given a situation where I have a lack of data what would I do? Why I would > >crack open a book and fucking read. You had two choices when you saw my > >sentece: > > > >1) Assume that "itself" referred to the Empire without any proof. > >2) Read the novelisation itself as I provided page reference and all. > > > >Now ask yourself which of the two options is the responsible academic thing > >to do? Once you've done that ask yourself which option would then require > >that you accept to others that you made an ASSUMPTION not justified by the > >facts? Now ask yourself what you would do if someone blamed you for their > >asusmption? > > > > and if Darktwit doesn't have a copy their selling them again at most local > retailers, bound into a single book > Actually that particular version (softcover) is the one I own so that's the only one where page references would point him right to the source data. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:07:01 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ah319n$p94ph$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "Setesh" wrote in message > news:20020717010301.03414.00000397@mb-fq.aol.com... > > >However you NEVER considered that a MAP could be the object could you? > What > > >reason did you have to believe the Empire was the antecedent? That's > right > > >absolutely none. The antecedent could have been "giant inflatable rubber > > >duckey" for all you knew. While that obviously would not make all that > much > > >sense it does fit grammatically and you have no evidence otherwise. Now > > >given a situation where I have a lack of data what would I do? Why I > would > > >crack open a book and fucking read. You had two choices when you saw my > > >sentece: > > > > > >1) Assume that "itself" referred to the Empire without any proof. > > >2) Read the novelisation itself as I provided page reference and all. > > > > > >Now ask yourself which of the two options is the responsible academic > thing > > >to do? Once you've done that ask yourself which option would then require > > >that you accept to others that you made an ASSUMPTION not justified by > the > > >facts? Now ask yourself what you would do if someone blamed you for their > > >asusmption? > > > > > > > and if Darktwit doesn't have a copy their selling them again at most local > > retailers, bound into a single book > > > > Actually that particular version (softcover) is the one I own so that's the > only one where page references would point him right to the source data. > > I faced a problem with books I didn't own and weren't available at the library, yet needed quotes from. I attempted something really radical to solve it: I asked if anyone could look them up for me. -- Chuck I don't suffer fools lightly. I prefer to season them lightly before they're roasted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:36:08 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ah2drm$osr18$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:CSRY8.130677$Bt1.6817205@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:ah0g79$pcp1s$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > > > "it" is a pronoun, it needs an antecedent. The antecedent in this case > was > > > the word "map" however as you did not have the anteceedent you could > only > > > guess what it was...in other words since I gave you nothing so you > pulled > > > shit out of your ass, go wash your hands off. > > > > In the context of the discussion, "it" could only have referred to the > > Empire, since the galaxy itself was in the sentence. > > > > Bite it. > > > > > However you NEVER considered that a MAP could be the object could you? Do you not realize that I could not possibly know "map" had anything to do with anything, thanks to your misquote? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:42:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:shfZ8.242230$vq.13066645@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:ah2drm$osr18$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:CSRY8.130677$Bt1.6817205@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > news:ah0g79$pcp1s$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > > > > > > "it" is a pronoun, it needs an antecedent. The antecedent in this case > > was > > > > the word "map" however as you did not have the anteceedent you could > > only > > > > guess what it was...in other words since I gave you nothing so you > > pulled > > > > shit out of your ass, go wash your hands off. > > > > > > In the context of the discussion, "it" could only have referred to the > > > Empire, since the galaxy itself was in the sentence. > > > > > > Bite it. > > > > > > > > > However you NEVER considered that a MAP could be the object could you? > > Do you not realize that I could not possibly know "map" had anything to do > with anything, thanks to your misquote? > Main Entry: mis- Function: prefix Etymology: partly from Middle English, from Old English; partly from Middle English mes-, mis-, from Old French mes-, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English mis-; akin to Old English missan to miss 1 a : badly : wrongly b : unfavorably c : in a suspicious manner 2 : bad : wrong 3 : opposite or lack of 4 : not Main Entry: 1quote Pronunciation: 'kwOt also 'kOt Function: verb Inflected Form(s): quot·ed; quot·ing Etymology: Medieval Latin quotare to mark the number of, number references, from Latin quotus of what number or quantity, from quot how many, (as) many as; akin to Latin qui who -- more at WHO Date: 1582 transitive senses 1 a : to speak or write (a passage) from another usually with credit acknowledgment b : to repeat a passage from especially in substantiation or illustration 2 : to cite in illustration 3 a : to state (the current price or bid-offer spread) for a commodity, stock, or bond b : to give exact information on 4 : to set off by quotation marks intransitive senses : to inform a hearer or reader that matter following is quoted - quot·er noun You suggest that I misquoted the passage? I preformed a completely proper job of quoting. I place the three dots prior to the beginning of the quote to indicate that a complete sentence was not present. I fullfilled ALL that is required of me in terms of proper quoting (I indicated source, location, and provided a grammatically correct quotation). The fault is yours for failure to confirm a suspicion of yours before making the most idiotic post of the week. Most of us here would bother to actually fully research the quote OR would accept tat they had srewed up when shown that they had improperly assumed. You, like a complete prick, have decided that your assumptions are my fault and I take issue with that. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:05:48 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <%SlZ8.245764$vq.13317760@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ah4ab5$qec87$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:shfZ8.242230$vq.13066645@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:ah2drm$osr18$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > news:CSRY8.130677$Bt1.6817205@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > > > news:ah0g79$pcp1s$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > > > > > > > > > > "it" is a pronoun, it needs an antecedent. The antecedent in this > case > > > was > > > > > the word "map" however as you did not have the anteceedent you could > > > only > > > > > guess what it was...in other words since I gave you nothing so you > > > pulled > > > > > shit out of your ass, go wash your hands off. > > > > > > > > In the context of the discussion, "it" could only have referred to the > > > > Empire, since the galaxy itself was in the sentence. > > > > > > > > Bite it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > However you NEVER considered that a MAP could be the object could you? > > > > Do you not realize that I could not possibly know "map" had anything to do > > with anything, thanks to your misquote? > You suggest that I misquoted the passage? Yes, because you did. You should've simply used the "modest-sized" part of the quote, or the entire sentence. However, by taking the large chunk out of context and placing it in the context of our debate, you left an erroneous impression. You then failed to correct that impression. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Celes Knight" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 22:39:45 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- > > You suggest that I misquoted the passage? > > Yes, because you did. You should've simply used the "modest-sized" part of > the quote, or the entire sentence. However, by taking the large chunk out > of context and placing it in the context of our debate, you left an > erroneous impression. You then failed to correct that impression. I've tried to be open minded--I've tried not to prejudge you, and I've waited for you to provide an explanation of how any of your accusation are correct. Now it's gotten to the point where your accusations are just sad. That part of the debate had nothing to do with the Empire. The quote was in no way misleading. Furthermore, it is not Cmdrwilkens job to correct every misconception you have, especially since he never respond to your post at all. It was your job to verify the quote for yourself or ask someone to confirm that you were right. If you can't accept that you made a mistake--if the only thing you can do is blame others, than you are nothing but a troll. I just wished I joined in on all the flaming fun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:15:58 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <1PuZ8.156326$Bt1.8479758@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> -------- "Celes Knight" wrote in message news:RmmZ8.152019$Bt1.8111064@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > You suggest that I misquoted the passage? > > > > Yes, because you did. You should've simply used the "modest-sized" part > of > > the quote, or the entire sentence. However, by taking the large chunk out > > of context and placing it in the context of our debate, you left an > > erroneous impression. You then failed to correct that impression. > > I've tried to be open minded--I've tried not to prejudge you, and I've > waited for you to provide an explanation of how any of your accusation are > correct. And I've done so. If you don't see that, sucks to be you. > If you can't accept that you made a mistake--if the only thing you can do is > blame others, than you are nothing but a troll. I just wished I joined in > on all the flaming fun. I did make a mistake, and I admitted to it. That mistake was assuming his quote was substantially accurate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graeme Dice Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:09:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3D36BE0B.DEEF39E@sk.sympatico.ca> -------- DarkStar wrote: > > If you can't accept that you made a mistake--if the only thing you can do > is > > blame others, than you are nothing but a troll. I just wished I joined in > > on all the flaming fun. > > I did make a mistake, and I admitted to it. That mistake was assuming his > quote was substantially accurate. The quote was completely accurate. Your interpretation of its meaning was not. Graeme Dice -- HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to the User. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Celes Knight" Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:58:04 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- > > > If you can't accept that you made a mistake--if the only thing you can do > > is > > > blame others, than you are nothing but a troll. I just wished I joined in > > > on all the flaming fun. > > > > I did make a mistake, and I admitted to it. That mistake was assuming his > > quote was substantially accurate. > > The quote was completely accurate. Your interpretation of its meaning > was not. Absolutely correct, Graeme. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:32:45 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Graeme Dice" wrote in message news:3D36BE0B.DEEF39E@sk.sympatico.ca... > DarkStar wrote: > > > > > > If you can't accept that you made a mistake--if the only thing you can do > > is > > > blame others, than you are nothing but a troll. I just wished I joined in > > > on all the flaming fun. > > > > I did make a mistake, and I admitted to it. That mistake was assuming his > > quote was substantially accurate. > > The quote was completely accurate. Your interpretation of its meaning > was not. > The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used in a new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end of argument. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graeme Dice Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:06:22 -0600 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3D380ECE.536E6FCB@sk.sympatico.ca> -------- DarkStar wrote: > > "Graeme Dice" wrote in message > news:3D36BE0B.DEEF39E@sk.sympatico.ca... > > DarkStar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > If you can't accept that you made a mistake--if the only thing you can > do > > > is > > > > blame others, than you are nothing but a troll. I just wished I > joined in > > > > on all the flaming fun. > > > > > > I did make a mistake, and I admitted to it. That mistake was assuming > his > > > quote was substantially accurate. > > > > The quote was completely accurate. Your interpretation of its meaning > > was not. > > > > The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used in a > new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end of > argument. Whine all you want, it doesn't change the fact that _you_ screwed up. Graeme Dice -- "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." — Albert Einstein. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:54:35 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <%OA_8.301621$vq.16540735@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> -------- "Graeme Dice" wrote in message news:3D380ECE.536E6FCB@sk.sympatico.ca... > DarkStar wrote: > > > > "Graeme Dice" wrote in message > > news:3D36BE0B.DEEF39E@sk.sympatico.ca... > > > DarkStar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you can't accept that you made a mistake--if the only thing you can > > do > > > > is > > > > > blame others, than you are nothing but a troll. I just wished I > > joined in > > > > > on all the flaming fun. > > > > > > > > I did make a mistake, and I admitted to it. That mistake was assuming > > his > > > > quote was substantially accurate. > > > > > > The quote was completely accurate. Your interpretation of its meaning > > > was not. > > > > > > > The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used in a > > new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end of > > argument. > > Whine all you want, it doesn't change the fact that _you_ screwed up. That was never in doubt. We were discussing what caused that to occur. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graeme Dice Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:59:02 -0600 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3D3ADA46.D634B025@sk.sympatico.ca> -------- DarkStar wrote: > > "Graeme Dice" wrote in message > news:3D380ECE.536E6FCB@sk.sympatico.ca... > > DarkStar wrote: > > > The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used in > a > > > new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end of > > > argument. > > > > Whine all you want, it doesn't change the fact that _you_ screwed up. > > That was never in doubt. We were discussing what caused that to occur. > Thanks. What caused you to screw up is your own inability to analyze sources correctly. Graeme Dice -- "Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think." — Niels Bohr. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:34:17 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Graeme Dice" wrote in message news:3D3ADA46.D634B025@sk.sympatico.ca... > DarkStar wrote: > > > > "Graeme Dice" wrote in message > > news:3D380ECE.536E6FCB@sk.sympatico.ca... > > > DarkStar wrote: > > > > > > > The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used in > > a > > > > new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end of > > > > argument. > > > > > > Whine all you want, it doesn't change the fact that _you_ screwed up. > > > > That was never in doubt. We were discussing what caused that to occur. > > Thanks. > > What caused you to screw up is your own inability to analyze sources > correctly. (sigh)... idiot. The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used in a new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end of argument. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graeme Dice Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:11 -0600 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3D3AEBA7.DE16CB9F@sk.sympatico.ca> -------- DarkStar wrote: > > "Graeme Dice" wrote in message > news:3D3ADA46.D634B025@sk.sympatico.ca... > > DarkStar wrote: > > > > > > "Graeme Dice" wrote in message > > > news:3D380ECE.536E6FCB@sk.sympatico.ca... > > > > DarkStar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used > in > > > a > > > > > new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end > of > > > > > argument. > > > > > > > > Whine all you want, it doesn't change the fact that _you_ screwed up. > > > > > > That was never in doubt. We were discussing what caused that to occur. > > > Thanks. > > > > What caused you to screw up is your own inability to analyze sources > > correctly. > > (sigh)... idiot. > > The quote was a misquote, Incorrect the quote was perfectly accurate. > taken out of the original context and used in a > new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end of > argument. Yes, it is the end of the argument, because it is plainly obvious that you are wrong. -- Gravity was invented by Issac Walton. It is chiefly noticeable in the autumn when the apples are falling off the trees. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:05:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:doB_8.204760$iX5.10729647@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Graeme Dice" wrote in message > news:3D3ADA46.D634B025@sk.sympatico.ca... > > DarkStar wrote: > > > > > > "Graeme Dice" wrote in message > > > news:3D380ECE.536E6FCB@sk.sympatico.ca... > > > > DarkStar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used > in > > > a > > > > > new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end > of > > > > > argument. > > > > > > > > Whine all you want, it doesn't change the fact that _you_ screwed up. > > > > > > That was never in doubt. We were discussing what caused that to occur. > > > Thanks. > > > > What caused you to screw up is your own inability to analyze sources > > correctly. > > (sigh)... idiot. > > The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used in a > new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end of > argument. > The quote was NOT put in another context, the protion of the quote you used has NO context at all. YOU are the person who gave it context and it was the wrong context which is YOUR fault. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) "I'm a genocidal maniac, hold me." -Anakin Vader ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:23:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:xNSZ8.220824$Im2.11022142@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Graeme Dice" wrote in message > news:3D36BE0B.DEEF39E@sk.sympatico.ca... > > DarkStar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > If you can't accept that you made a mistake--if the only thing you can > do > > > is > > > > blame others, than you are nothing but a troll. I just wished I > joined in > > > > on all the flaming fun. > > > > > > I did make a mistake, and I admitted to it. That mistake was assuming > his > > > quote was substantially accurate. > > > > The quote was completely accurate. Your interpretation of its meaning > > was not. > > > > The quote was a misquote, taken out of the original context and used in a > new context unrelated to the original context. End of story, end of > argument. > It can't be out of context if you provide no context. I gave you no context and you created one to your liking, that is an assumptin on your part not mine. That is a fault on your part not mine. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) "I'm a genocidal maniac, hold me." -Anakin Vader ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doomriser" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:19:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3d31eaf8_1@news.cybersurf.net> -------- Nice distortion of facts, troll. Welcome to my first official use of the killfile. -- -=Doomriser "There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages." -- Richard Lederer, "Anguished English" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:46:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Doomriser" wrote in message news:3d31eaf8_1@news.cybersurf.net... > Nice distortion of facts, troll. Welcome to my first official use of the > killfile. > > > Where is RayCav when you need him damnit. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doomriser" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:01:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: <3d324692_1@news.cybersurf.net> -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:agt61q$of760$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "Doomriser" wrote in message > news:3d31eaf8_1@news.cybersurf.net... > > Nice distortion of facts, troll. Welcome to my first official use of the > > killfile. > > > > > > > > Where is RayCav when you need him damnit. > > > What? What's wrong with my KFing? -- -=Doomriser ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:26:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Doomriser" wrote in message news:3d324692_1@news.cybersurf.net... > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:agt61q$of760$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "Doomriser" wrote in message > > news:3d31eaf8_1@news.cybersurf.net... > > > Nice distortion of facts, troll. Welcome to my first official use of the > > > killfile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where is RayCav when you need him damnit. > > > > > > > What? What's wrong with my KFing? > You KFing doesn't activate the ASVS drinking game near as I can recall. -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:08:05 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Doomriser" wrote in message news:3d31eaf8_1@news.cybersurf.net... > Nice distortion of facts, troll. Welcome to my first official use of the > killfile. > > That's what I get for accepting "facts" as presented by your side. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:16:14 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- Mark II "DarkStar" wrote in message news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. > > Here's what we know: > > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems in the > Empire. It also refers to the galaxy as "modest-sized." > Well, given a million systems in the Empire, the size -- assuming it's just > a million _stars_, and in a galaxy like ours -- could be up to 1,000 light > years (there are 250,000 stars within a 250 light-year radius of Earth, and > 300 million stars within 5,000ly). To have a million _habitable systems_, a > likely minimum would be 10-15,000 light years. > > On the other hand, if Tarkin referred to _populated_ systems, the figure is > unknown, since we don't know the percentage of colonized habitable systems. > That means we have to take a look at the other quote about a modest-sized > galaxy for further information. In the Local Group of 40 galaxies, even > excluding the dwarfs and any galaxies below 10,000 light-years across, the > average size of the remaining 13 is 36,500 light years across. Even when > you just count the larger galaxies within 20 million light years, that > figure holds true. The only way you can get a bigger average figure is to > count _only_ the 200 brightest (above magnitude 11.24) galaxies we can see > within 100 million light years, but even then only about half are in the > 100,000 light year or above category, and only six of those break 200,000 > light years. And that's just the bright ones, which means all the little > ones are automatically out of the count. > > Naturally, judging the Star Wars galaxy off of this is based on the notion > that the universe's galaxies are fairly uniform, and that the galaxies > weren't huge in the past, "a long, long time ago". But, as you can see, a > "modest" size would presumably be near the average, or something in the > neighborhood of 50,000 light years across, probably a bit less. So, the canon suggests a SW galaxy in the 50,000 light year size range. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:22:41 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:xnpY8.200590$vq.10726961@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > Mark II > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:c2jY8.101932$iX5.4692566@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > I was looking at what the canon has to say about Empire size and scope. > > > > Here's what we know: > > > > Tarkin says in the ANH novelisation that there are a million systems in > the > > Empire. > > It also refers to the galaxy as "modest-sized." > > > Well, given a million systems in the Empire, the size -- assuming it's > just > > a million _stars_, and in a galaxy like ours -- could be up to 1,000 light > > years (there are 250,000 stars within a 250 light-year radius of Earth, > and > > 300 million stars within 5,000ly). To have a million _habitable systems_, > a > > likely minimum would be 10-15,000 light years. > > > > On the other hand, if Tarkin referred to _populated_ systems, the figure > is > > unknown, since we don't know the percentage of colonized habitable > systems. > > That means we have to take a look at the other quote about a modest-sized > > galaxy for further information. In the Local Group of 40 galaxies, even > > excluding the dwarfs and any galaxies below 10,000 light-years across, the > > average size of the remaining 13 is 36,500 light years across. Even when > > you just count the larger galaxies within 20 million light years, that > > figure holds true. The only way you can get a bigger average figure is to > > count _only_ the 200 brightest (above magnitude 11.24) galaxies we can see > > within 100 million light years, but even then only about half are in the > > 100,000 light year or above category, and only six of those break 200,000 > > light years. And that's just the bright ones, which means all the little > > ones are automatically out of the count. > > > > Naturally, judging the Star Wars galaxy off of this is based on the notion > > that the universe's galaxies are fairly uniform, and that the galaxies > > weren't huge in the past, "a long, long time ago". But, as you can see, > a > > "modest" size would presumably be near the average, or something in the > > neighborhood of 50,000 light years across, probably a bit less. > > So, the canon suggests a SW galaxy in the 50,000 light year size range. > This specific interpretation of canon reaches this conclusion. This conclusion contradicts known facts stated in the official literature. That literature does not conflict with canon. Therefore the 120,000 ly diameter figure is actually the correct one, even if it is contradicted by this interpretation. -- Chuck I don't suffer fools lightly. I prefer to season them lightly before they're roasted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:13:31 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" wrote in message news:BtpY8.590$xf1.426531@typhoon.kc.rr.com... > > So, the canon suggests a SW galaxy in the 50,000 light year size range. > > > This specific interpretation of canon reaches this conclusion. This > conclusion contradicts known facts stated in the official literature. That > literature does not conflict with canon. Therefore the 120,000 ly diameter > figure is actually the correct one, even if it is contradicted by this > interpretation. This suggests the non-canon is contrary to the canon, though you are correct that there is no direct numerical contradiction. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:43:26 GMT Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:fdqY8.200760$vq.10779091@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" wrote in message > news:BtpY8.590$xf1.426531@typhoon.kc.rr.com... > > > > So, the canon suggests a SW galaxy in the 50,000 light year size range. > > > > > This specific interpretation of canon reaches this conclusion. This > > conclusion contradicts known facts stated in the official literature. > That > > literature does not conflict with canon. Therefore the 120,000 ly > diameter > > figure is actually the correct one, even if it is contradicted by this > > interpretation. > > This suggests the non-canon is contrary to the canon, though you are correct > that there is no direct numerical contradiction. > On the contrary, it suggests that the interpretation must be flawed. Any theory that cannot account for the official figure is going to have a severe uphill battle since the figure is very specifically given (not an interpretation or hyperbolic dialogue). -- Chuck I don't suffer fools lightly. I prefer to season them lightly before they're roasted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:56:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [Strictly Canon] Empire size Message-ID: -------- "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" wrote in message news:iFqY8.593$xf1.427191@typhoon.kc.rr.com... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:fdqY8.200760$vq.10779091@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Chuck, Dark Lord of the Rings" wrote in message > > news:BtpY8.590$xf1.426531@typhoon.kc.rr.com... > > > > > > So, the canon suggests a SW galaxy in the 50,000 light year size > range. > > > > > > > This specific interpretation of canon reaches this conclusion. This > > > conclusion contradicts known facts stated in the official literature. > > That > > > literature does not conflict with canon. Therefore the 120,000 ly > > diameter > > > figure is actually the correct one, even if it is contradicted by this > >