---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:23:23 GMT Subject: DS acceleration figure oddity Message-ID: -------- Refers to: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Propulsion/Propulsion2.html#Subligh t In the above, Wong suggests that we trust the Rebel screen over the Imperial readout in order to determine the speed of the Death Star. However, this makes no sense, and ignores the canon facts. Shortly after the Death Star entered the system, we are told that the DS will be in firing position in 30 minutes. More importantly, we are told that the Death Star is orbiting the planet at maximum velocity. Even better, we're shown the Imperial version of the screen representing the DS location. (The idea of maximum velocity is peculiar here, but could refer to the simple orbital trajectory, or something to do with the repulsorlifts.) Wong shows us the Rebel screen readout at 15, 5, and 0 minutes from the Death Star's reaching of firing position. While we cannot see on this screen where the ship was located at 30 minutes out, we can certainly see that _if_ the Rebel screen is positionally accurate, and given that the DS was already at maximum velocity, the Death Star would have been in a prime firing location 30 minutes prior, but from the other side of the planet. Further, given the max velocity line as compared to Wong's assertion that the DS must have accelerated afterward, Wong is asserting that they must've slowed down and then re-accelerated. In other words, instead of simply turning around (if they even needed to), they made an orbit of the planet for no good reason. If they had, in fact, needed to turn around to target the moon, they could have simply dropped out of hyperspace sooner. So, pick one: Either the differences between the Imperial screen and the Rebel screen indicates that the Rebel screen is not positionally accurate (and that therefore you cannot derive acceleration from the Rebel screen), or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:55:24 -0400 Subject: Re: DS acceleration figure oddity Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:LrV_8.220677$iB1.11787129@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > Refers to: > http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Propulsion/Propulsion2.html#Subligh > t > > In the above, Wong suggests that we trust the Rebel screen over the Imperial > readout in order to determine the speed of the Death Star. > > However, this makes no sense, and ignores the canon facts. Shortly after the > Death Star entered the system, we are told that the DS will be in firing > position in 30 minutes. More importantly, we are told that the Death Star is > orbiting the planet at maximum velocity. Even better, we're shown the > Imperial version of the screen representing the DS location. > > (The idea of maximum velocity is peculiar here, but could refer to the > simple orbital trajectory, or something to do with the repulsorlifts.) > > Wong shows us the Rebel screen readout at 15, 5, and 0 minutes from the > Death Star's reaching of firing position. While we cannot see on this screen > where the ship was located at 30 minutes out, we can certainly see that _if_ > the Rebel screen is positionally accurate, and given that the DS was already > at maximum velocity, the Death Star would have been in a prime firing > location 30 minutes prior, but from the other side of the planet. Further, > given the max velocity line as compared to Wong's assertion that the DS must > have accelerated afterward, Wong is asserting that they must've slowed down > and then re-accelerated. > > In other words, instead of simply turning around (if they even needed to), > they made an orbit of the planet for no good reason. If they had, in fact, > needed to turn around to target the moon, they could have simply dropped out > of hyperspace sooner. > > So, pick one: Either the differences between the Imperial screen and the > Rebel screen indicates that the Rebel screen is not positionally accurate > (and that therefore you cannot derive acceleration from the Rebel screen), > or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation. > I pick option C. The battlestation did not start the thirty minute period in orbit of Yavin. rather it was a significant distance away form Yavin and then entered into an orbit of that planet. You do realize that the entire thrity miutes do not have to be done in a circular orbit right? -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) "I'm a genocidal maniac, hold me." -Anakin Vader ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:01:43 GMT Subject: Re: DS acceleration figure oddity Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ahha1p$qfqef$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:LrV_8.220677$iB1.11787129@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > Refers to: > > > http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Propulsion/Propulsion2.html#Subligh > > t > > > > In the above, Wong suggests that we trust the Rebel screen over the > Imperial > > readout in order to determine the speed of the Death Star. > > > > However, this makes no sense, and ignores the canon facts. Shortly after > the > > Death Star entered the system, we are told that the DS will be in firing > > position in 30 minutes. More importantly, we are told that the Death Star > is > > orbiting the planet at maximum velocity. Even better, we're shown the > > Imperial version of the screen representing the DS location. > > > > (The idea of maximum velocity is peculiar here, but could refer to the > > simple orbital trajectory, or something to do with the repulsorlifts.) > > > > Wong shows us the Rebel screen readout at 15, 5, and 0 minutes from the > > Death Star's reaching of firing position. While we cannot see on this > screen > > where the ship was located at 30 minutes out, we can certainly see that > _if_ > > the Rebel screen is positionally accurate, and given that the DS was > already > > at maximum velocity, the Death Star would have been in a prime firing > > location 30 minutes prior, but from the other side of the planet. > Further, > > given the max velocity line as compared to Wong's assertion that the DS > must > > have accelerated afterward, Wong is asserting that they must've slowed > down > > and then re-accelerated. > > > > In other words, instead of simply turning around (if they even needed to), > > they made an orbit of the planet for no good reason. If they had, in fact, > > needed to turn around to target the moon, they could have simply dropped > out > > of hyperspace sooner. > > > > So, pick one: Either the differences between the Imperial screen and the > > Rebel screen indicates that the Rebel screen is not positionally accurate > > (and that therefore you cannot derive acceleration from the Rebel screen), > > > or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation. > > > > I pick option C. The battlestation did not start the thirty minute period in > orbit of Yavin. rather it was a significant distance away form Yavin and > then entered into an orbit of that planet. You do realize that the entire > thrity miutes do not have to be done in a circular orbit right? (sigh) The Imperial voice says they are "orbiting the planet at maximum velocity" when the 30 minute figure is given, as I said. Further, even if you draw a line on the Rebel screen from where the DS is at 5 minutes to where it is at 15, they'd still have been in a position to blow the crap out of the moon 30 minutes beforehand. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cmdrwilkens" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:19:29 -0400 Subject: Re: DS acceleration figure oddity Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:H%V_8.319463$vq.17513688@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > news:ahha1p$qfqef$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > news:LrV_8.220677$iB1.11787129@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > Refers to: > > > > > > http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Propulsion/Propulsion2.html#Subligh > > > t > > > > > > In the above, Wong suggests that we trust the Rebel screen over the > > Imperial > > > readout in order to determine the speed of the Death Star. > > > > > > However, this makes no sense, and ignores the canon facts. Shortly after > > the > > > Death Star entered the system, we are told that the DS will be in firing > > > position in 30 minutes. More importantly, we are told that the Death > Star > > is > > > orbiting the planet at maximum velocity. Even better, we're shown the > > > Imperial version of the screen representing the DS location. > > > > > > (The idea of maximum velocity is peculiar here, but could refer to the > > > simple orbital trajectory, or something to do with the repulsorlifts.) > > > > > > Wong shows us the Rebel screen readout at 15, 5, and 0 minutes from the > > > Death Star's reaching of firing position. While we cannot see on this > > screen > > > where the ship was located at 30 minutes out, we can certainly see that > > _if_ > > > the Rebel screen is positionally accurate, and given that the DS was > > already > > > at maximum velocity, the Death Star would have been in a prime firing > > > location 30 minutes prior, but from the other side of the planet. > > Further, > > > given the max velocity line as compared to Wong's assertion that the DS > > must > > > have accelerated afterward, Wong is asserting that they must've slowed > > down > > > and then re-accelerated. > > > > > > In other words, instead of simply turning around (if they even needed > to), > > > they made an orbit of the planet for no good reason. If they had, in > fact, > > > needed to turn around to target the moon, they could have simply dropped > > out > > > of hyperspace sooner. > > > > > > So, pick one: Either the differences between the Imperial screen and the > > > Rebel screen indicates that the Rebel screen is not positionally > accurate > > > (and that therefore you cannot derive acceleration from the Rebel > screen), > > > > > or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation. > > > > > > > I pick option C. The battlestation did not start the thirty minute period > in > > orbit of Yavin. rather it was a significant distance away form Yavin and > > then entered into an orbit of that planet. You do realize that the entire > > thrity miutes do not have to be done in a circular orbit right? > > (sigh) > > The Imperial voice says they are "orbiting the planet at maximum velocity" > when the 30 minute figure is given, as I said. Further, even if you draw a > line on the Rebel screen from where the DS is at 5 minutes to where it is at > 15, they'd still have been in a position to blow the crap out of the moon 30 > minutes beforehand. > Nonetheless the station is much further away from the planet (in the shot preceding the overbridge scene) than it is later when the Rebels reach it. This indicates that it was entering into an orbit OR that it could be in a very elongated ellipsoidal orbit. You simply do not consider that the orbital pattern is not neccessarily going to be circular. Depending on how I draw the ellipse I can have the DS on a virtually straightline approach for a long time (think of the orbit of comets around the sun). -- Lcpl Burnett, G.R. USMCR BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG "Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure" - IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net) "I'm a genocidal maniac, hold me." -Anakin Vader ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DarkStar" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:28:39 GMT Subject: Re: DS acceleration figure oddity Message-ID: -------- "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message news:ahilla$t9f6k$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > "DarkStar" wrote in message > news:H%V_8.319463$vq.17513688@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > "Cmdrwilkens" wrote in message > > news:ahha1p$qfqef$1@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de... > > > "DarkStar" wrote in message > > > news:LrV_8.220677$iB1.11787129@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > > > Refers to: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Propulsion/Propulsion2.html#Subligh > > > > t > > > > > > > > In the above, Wong suggests that we trust the Rebel screen over the > > > Imperial > > > > readout in order to determine the speed of the Death Star. > > > > > > > > However, this makes no sense, and ignores the canon facts. Shortly > after > > > the > > > > Death Star entered the system, we are told that the DS will be in > firing > > > > position in 30 minutes. More importantly, we are told that the Death > > Star > > > is > > > > orbiting the planet at maximum velocity. Even better, we're shown the > > > > Imperial version of the screen representing the DS location. > > > > > > > > (The idea of maximum velocity is peculiar here, but could refer to the > > > > simple orbital trajectory, or something to do with the repulsorlifts.) > > > > > > > > Wong shows us the Rebel screen readout at 15, 5, and 0 minutes from > the > > > > Death Star's reaching of firing position. While we cannot see on this > > > screen > > > > where the ship was located at 30 minutes out, we can certainly see > that > > > _if_ > > > > the Rebel screen is positionally accurate, and given that the DS was > > > already > > > > at maximum velocity, the Death Star would have been in a prime firing > > > > location 30 minutes prior, but from the other side of the planet. > > > Further, > > > > given the max velocity line as compared to Wong's assertion that the > DS > > > must > > > > have accelerated afterward, Wong is asserting that they must've slowed > > > down > > > > and then re-accelerated. > > > > > > > > In other words, instead of simply turning around (if they even needed > > to), > > > > they made an orbit of the planet for no good reason. If they had, in > > fact, > > > > needed to turn around to target the moon, they could have simply > dropped > > > out > > > > of hyperspace sooner. > > > > > > > > So, pick one: Either the differences between the Imperial screen and > the > > > > Rebel screen indicates that the Rebel screen is not positionally > > accurate > > > > (and that therefore you cannot derive acceleration from the Rebel > > screen), > > > > > > > or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation. > > > > > > > > > > I pick option C. The battlestation did not start the thirty minute > period > > in > > > orbit of Yavin. rather it was a significant distance away form Yavin and > > > then entered into an orbit of that planet. You do realize that the > entire > > > thrity miutes do not have to be done in a circular orbit right? > > > > (sigh) > > > > The Imperial voice says they are "orbiting the planet at maximum velocity" > > when the 30 minute figure is given, as I said. Further, even if you draw > a > > line on the Rebel screen from where the DS is at 5 minutes to where it is > at > > 15, they'd still have been in a position to blow the crap out of the moon > 30 > > minutes beforehand. > > > > Nonetheless the station is much further away from the planet (in the shot > preceding the overbridge scene) than it is later when the Rebels reach it. > This indicates that it was entering into an orbit OR that it could be in a > very elongated ellipsoidal orbit. You simply do not consider that the > orbital pattern is not neccessarily going to be circular. Depending on how I > draw the ellipse I can have the DS on a virtually straightline approach for > a long time (think of the orbit of comets around the sun). Anywhere you put the Death Star on that Rebel screen (unless you purposefully put it opposite the planet, in which case it is going to have to stop and turn around when it starts the orbit, instead of just going the same way and shooting the base much sooner), you will be in firing position at 30 minutes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Compulsive Gambler" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:39:40 -0700 Subject: Re: DS acceleration figure oddity Message-ID: -------- "DarkStar" wrote in message news:LrV_8.220677$iB1.11787129@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > Refers to: > http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Propulsion/Propulsion2.html#Subligh > t > > So, pick one: Either the differences between the Imperial screen and the > Rebel screen indicates that the Rebel screen is not positionally accurate > (and that therefore you cannot derive acceleration from the Rebel screen), > or the Empire is utterly stupid when it comes to navigation. > Well, they both have crappy computer graphics so what does that tell ya?